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A new approach to China

googleblog.blogspot.com

231–240 of 392 posts

Re: A new approach to China

#231
post #228

So what this means is that all searches to Baidu are most likely government monitored. I remember watching a Frontline documentary about China in the 2000s. It profiled one guy who kept on moving to more egregiously luxurious apartments, as his government contracts grew (he ran an advertising agency and as the Frontline series had concluded he had landed a major contract for Beijing 2008 and was moving into the penth…

Where did you read that?

Nothing concrete. I did not state anything, just a hunch.

> The secret to Baidu's success -- and Google's failure -- is largely positioning. First, Baidu has managed to win Beijing's favor, a trump card in this command economy. The government controls the Internet and appreciates loyal partners. Baidu understands that it operates under the good graces of the Chinese Communist Party, and continues to show it. As Robin Li, the company's chief executive, said in an interview with the Guardian, "As a locally operated company we need to obey the Chinese law. If the law determines that certain information is illegal, we need to remove it from our index."

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/09/29/where_googl...

> Privacy and Security. Google is committed to protecting consumer privacy and confidentiality. Prior to the launch of Google.cn, Google conducted intensive reviews of each of our services to assess the implications of offering it directly in China. We are always conscious of the fact that data may be subject to the jurisdiction of the country where it is physically stored. With that in mind, we concluded that, at least initially, only a handful of search engine services would be hosted in China.

We will not store data somewhere unless we are confident that we can meet our expectations for the privacy and security of users’ sensitive information. As a practical matter, meeting this user interest means that we have no plans to host Gmail, Blogger, and a range of other such services in China.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/02/testimony-internet-in...

Re: A new approach to China

#232
post #88
post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

I really need a software called "Anti-GFW".

Re: A new approach to China

#233
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't assume that the Chinese Gov. are ignorant of PR dangers, they aren't irrational. It would be complex mixed feelings.

They can spin this easily. Google is showing porn images in their search results or some other bullshit story. They would do that, and it would make their local search engine Baidu look very good in comparison. They could also spin it as Google not being able to stand the competition and "look! Westerns can't help us, they don't know anything about us!" They aren't ignorant of PR and they know when to apply force and…

It seems they've already started that kind of spin. For example, in the wsj article:

"Chinese internet analysts said they were shocked by the Google announcement, but at the same time they understood the reasons behind its threat to back out of China. They said the cyber attacks have exposed Google's inability to protect its users' privacy..."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126335402591827235.html

Re: A new approach to China

#234
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

为什么美国不来个反GFW项目 你禁止国内访问外网的某些网站, 那我也以其人之道还治其人之身 把关键网站也对中国封掉,比如科技IEEE,教育,医疗等著名网站,把中国真正变成一个局域网。那时候详细国内的网民该疯了

那美国也和天朝一样,米有人权了

Re: A new approach to China

#235

Wouldn't every entrepreneur hope google would pull out of his market? :-)

Doubt it. Google search is instrumental in driving traffic to one's site. And its other products are integral in so many other areas, from docs to email, and so many other services I won't even try to list.

Re: A new approach to China

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so proud of Google right now. It's hard to contain. It is high time somoene stood up to China and let them know enough is enough. I sincerely hope other corporations follow suit. As I mentioned elsewhere, I am sure there is more to the story than is being let on now. I could only imagine the level of corporate espionage that is in play between China and Google. Good for Google calling them on it and making a bro…

> I am so proud of Google right now. I am too, but I think we should remember that China's citizens were and still are being censored, killed, and tortured on a daily basis. Google was fine doing business with them and even assisting in their censorship. Only until Google found itself on the receiving end of China's baton did it finally decide to change their relationship. They deserve kudos and a pat on the back for…

> Only until Google found itself on the receiving end of China's baton did it finally decide to change their relationship.

Maybe Google is lying to us, but what they were saying is originally it was 'well, even if censored, we can still be a positive factor'. Now they are saying, 'our presence is being abused by the gov't. We are now a negative factor'.

I'm sure they aren't giddy about getting hacked, but if not getting hacked was their primary goal, I doubt complete withdraw from China would be move #1

Re: A new approach to China

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? To cross-post a comment from news.YC to reddit? Why?

If it was your own comment that would be fine, if it is someone else's then I'm afraid that it is beyond me to explain to you why it is wrong if you do not understand that by yourself.

Right, if it was anything more than a comment on a message board, I agree, but just as borrowing a piece of paper or pencil during class without returning it is technically "theft", this is similarly justified.

Re: A new approach to China

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the individual on reddit may have very well stolen your comment I did, thought of it more as a social experiment than theft, though. Apologies to boundlessdreamz, if he cares...

I do care about it a bit because that comment contains personal opinion/commentary. If you had copied only the "data/facts" there would have been no problem.

OK, I'll delete it. Sorry.

Re: A new approach to China

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company... I don't want to romanticize times gone by, but I think at certain points in history there have been people who controlled large companies also knew that their sustainable existence depended on a healthy society; there might be short term costs to investing in such a society, but the long term benefits are enormous. In the neo-liberal era, this approach is no…

I downvoted you for your unsupported claim that "In the neo-liberal era, this approach is no longer given any credence". I also downvoted you for complaining about a downvote, which probably gave you more sympathy upvotes than you deserved.

By the definition of neoliberal, non-market structures are considered bad. But you don't know that, or you wouldn't have downvoted me, at least not the first time. Why you might have downvoted me is that you think a shift away from more socialist structures toward more market structures is a good thing, or (less likely) that we are not in a neoliberal era. In either case, to downvote an opinion because you think it is wrong seems silly to me. Why not write a rebuttal, if you're so smart?

I think I have come to take more pride in my vote volatility than in having lots of karma; when I watch it go up and down on a post I think -- wow, people actually care about what I said. And anyone who actually worries about their karma points on HN.... well, sorry about that.

Oh -- I do appreciate the explanation.

Re: A new approach to China

#240
post #204
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it started. Major news sites in China start to filter out this news which has been heavily reported several hours ago. I expected all Google service will be blocked by the end of today. Edit: maybe not that soon. A second thought, current news block may be interpreted as a "saving face" for Google. China high officials may have that kind of thought and think it is for Google's own benefits so that they can still…

I'm not sure they can just block all Google services all of a sudden. What about mail. What about docs. What about turning off your Google Adwords account.

Why on earth is this comment being downmodded? Netscan makes a completely valid point. What China should, in my opinion, do is slowly phase google out; throttle traffic to google's servers and then release some news articles with false statements from google that they can't support the traffic.

Getting the people of China to willfully abandon Google would be good in the eyes of the Chinese government.

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