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Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

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Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#101

Post by talmand »

rplnt wrote: post #60
microtonal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in Android Marshmallow (6.0). Unfortunately, it will take a couple of years before the majority of Android users has this :/.

Definitely, considering there are still 2.x devices out there. I have Android 4 on Samsung and on Motorolla, both of them really not that old (released on 07/2013 and 05/2014 respectively). And no sign of an update... However, I was forced to update my Nexus 7 to 5.x, and the device became absolutely unusable. So I wonder whether I want the upgrades if even Google can't handle them properly.

How were you forced to update your Nexus 7? I have a Nexus 7 and every update it's ever received had to be approved by my clicking on the button saying I wanted to update. Can you not do a system restore to get it back to its original version when you purchased it?

I know it's pointless to say that my Nexus 7 runs Android 5 just fine though, just to counter your comment about Google not handling updates properly.

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#102

Post by jo909 »

forgetsusername wrote: post #88
jo909 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying I'm comfortable with this either way, but I do see a difference between recording a conversation with the intent to keep that recording and extract the spoken content, and processing the audio "on the fly" for certain parameters to identify a limited set of things. Of course the problem is you can't control or check which of the two was done with the audio that got uploaded, and that is the scary part…

The problem is that the choice as to whether they actually "listen" to my uploaded processed audio is up to them , not me. At this point the only assurance is "we don't listen."

At the end it comes down to trust, laws and maybe occams razor. We can't personally check what exactly they do with our data (not limited to this particular feature), so either we trust in what facebook assures us, or trust that they follow laws that only allow certain usage, or at least assume that there is no orchestrated plot to record me farting on the sofa and that they really only do what they claim to do because that is the simplest explanation.

That can change if someone has hints or factual proof that they don't. So far I have only seen asumptions that were not in any way connected to any objective argument or fact.

Of course we can reason about why keeping as much information private as possible is a good idea, how users need to be in control of their data etc, and I agree with all of that stuff. I'm not a fan of facebook at all. For me opening facebook is a horrible experience filled with content I don't care about. And of course privacy is always an issue.

But I can't see what is gained by making unfounded statemets that in essence claim "facebook is lying, of course they record our conversation".

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#103

Post by rplnt »

talmand wrote: post #100
rplnt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of 5 android devices I've owned only one received major version update (and it didn't work). So, anecdotally, one does. But I believe my case is more common than yours.

Just to be fair, are the 5 android devices non-nexus devices? If so, that's because of the carriers and that's why it's a common problem.

They are. But only one of them was bought through a carrier (so it's "branded"). Others are "OEM", so could be updated by the manufacturer.

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#104

Post by DanBC »

GregQuinn wrote: post #98
DanBC wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What UK laws are being broken? EDIT: I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just asking what law is being broken.

It's not illegal to record a conversation between two parties. However if you share this recording with a third party (in this case Facebook) then you have to obtain the consent of the other party.

Under what law?

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#105

Post by talmand »

mootothemax wrote: post #77
kuschku wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You choose to turn on the feature. The people around you have no choice at all if they are recorded or not.

> You choose to turn on the feature. >The people around you have no choice at all if they are recorded or not. How's that different to literally any application that sends microphone recordings across the 'net?

It is no different, any application that does this makes you subject to liability depending on local laws. If it is illegal in your area to record someone without their consent and you hold up your phone in a bar while using something like Shazam you may be breaking the law. While the odds of you being prosecuted for it may seem unlikely, doesn't change the potential liability.

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#107

Post by rplnt »

talmand wrote: post #101
rplnt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely, considering there are still 2.x devices out there. I have Android 4 on Samsung and on Motorolla, both of them really not that old (released on 07/2013 and 05/2014 respectively). And no sign of an update... However, I was forced to update my Nexus 7 to 5.x, and the device became absolutely unusable. So I wonder whether I want the upgrades if even Google can't handle them properly.

How were you forced to update your Nexus 7? I have a Nexus 7 and every update it's ever received had to be approved by my clicking on the button saying I wanted to update. Can you not do a system restore to get it back to its original version when you purchased it? I know it's pointless to say that my Nexus 7 runs Android 5 just fine though, just to counter your comment about Google not handling updates properly.

There was a permanent notification that I could not get rid off. I consider that forcing an upgrade.

It was the 2012 version of Nexus 7 and while not everyone had these issues, it was a pretty common problem and I consider it a huge failure on Google's part. As far as a I know, there is no way to downgrade without rooting the phone. Some people reported that factory reset helped with the performance. I haven't used it for several months and then installed CM - not as fast as the 4.x was, but somewhat usable.

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#108

Post by georgerobinson »

talmand wrote: post #99
georgerobinson wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just got a Motorola Moto G to replace an aging iPhone 5s. I do like Android, but there are so many features of it that I find just completely irksome. For example, Google release Android 6.0 but I can't upgrade until Motorola decide when and if I can update my phone. Why can't I upgrade at the same time as everyone else, like on iOS? Second is the abysmal permissions system which grants access to everything and any…

>> Why can't I upgrade at the same time as everyone else, like on iOS? Because Google doesn't control updates for your phone and most likely neither does Motorola, complain to your carrier. The carrier has the option to offer a vanilla Android that can be updated whenever new versions are available, but most don't to offer their own customized versions.

I bought the phone from Amazon, SIM-free, so I'm not sure if Vodafone are the right people to complain to here?

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#109

Post by GregQuinn »

DanBC wrote: post #104
GregQuinn wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal to record a conversation between two parties. However if you share this recording with a third party (in this case Facebook) then you have to obtain the consent of the other party.

Under what law?

Try this: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice...

Re: Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update

#110

Post by DanBC »

GregQuinn wrote: post #109
DanBC wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under what law?

Try this: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice...

All of those apply to phone calls. In this situation we have people in a semi-public space (eg, a Pub) talking, and one person using a mobile phone to send background noise (which will include that conversation) to Facebook or Shazzam who process the noise, identify any music, and then discard the noise.

Your law would prevent people in busy offices from making any phone calls.

RIPA http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/contents

> It shall be an offence for a person intentionally and without lawful authority to intercept, at any place in the United Kingdom, any communication in the course of its transmission by means of—

> (a)a public postal service; or > (b)a public telecommunication system.

That doesn't feel relevant.

Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice) (Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/2699) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2699/contents/made

Also not relevant. This is about businesses recording calls, and how they can do so and stay within law.

The Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy) Regulations 1999 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2093/regulation/1/ma...

Again, not relevant. And also covers temporary use of data, so if anything it allows the Facebook use.

The DPA isn't relevant unless Facebook is storing the data beyond the immediate identification of music in the background.

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