A new approach to China • Hacker News Board

Re: A new approach to China

#141

Post by itistoday » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:10 AM UTC

siculars wrote: post #36

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I am so proud of Google right now. It's hard to contain. It is high time somoene stood up to China and let them know enough is enough. I sincerely hope other corporations follow suit. As I mentioned elsewhere, I am sure there is more to the story than is being let on now. I could only imagine the level of corporate espionage that is in play between China and Google. Good for Google calling them on it and making a bro…

> I am so proud of Google right now.

I am too, but I think we should remember that China's citizens were and still are being censored, killed, and tortured on a daily basis. Google was fine doing business with them and even assisting in their censorship. Only until Google found itself on the receiving end of China's baton did it finally decide to change their relationship.

They deserve kudos and a pat on the back for realizing that it's not good to bow down and comply with a government that tortures and locks up its citizens for speaking their minds, but they don't deserve any sort of hero worship.

Re: A new approach to China

#142

Post by knv » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:11 AM UTC

cwan wrote: post #40

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I have to imagine they have also weighed the business calculus on this. Where they might lose in China for now, will enhance their reputation elsewhere - particularly given how they've come under increased criticism in a wide range of fields. This decision whether intentionally so or in keeping with their stated mission is highly symbolic. Further, don't think this won't help them in China over the long run either. W…

> When a "glastnost" comes to China

I think it's more accurate to say: If a "glastnost" comes to China. There's no rule of thumb that something like that is going to happen in every undemocratic country.

Re: A new approach to China

#143

Post by FuckCPC » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:12 AM UTC

liuliu wrote: post #88

there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

May hackers do as their conscience! 愿黑客们按照良心做事!

Re: A new approach to China

#144

Post by gommm » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:12 AM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #126

pavs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be interesting to see how the Chinese govt responds. Chinese Gov will be glad if google leaves - they have nothing to loose. Their credibility as an ethical government will be bruised, not that there was any credibility to begin with.

On the contrary, the services that Google provides are very important. It's hard for me to imagine China in the role of technology leadership that they'd like, without the support of Google's services. I think that China's leadership needs to give serious thought to what it'll cost them if their industry and their people can't (legally) use Google.

They did use to block google regularly before Google came in China... And Baidu is quite a bit more popular with Chinese people than Google so I'm not sure if that will be the problem...

What might be bad for China though is all the investment Google made on research and the PR disaster (and the chinese government is very concerned with face).

Re: A new approach to China

#145

Post by chenshaoju » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:14 AM UTC

liuliu wrote: post #88

there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

Twitter观光团前来支持！

@chenshaoju

Re: A new approach to China

#146

Post by IvanWong » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:17 AM UTC

liuliu wrote: post #88

there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

fuck Dang

Re: A new approach to China

#147

Post by sown » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:17 AM UTC

There has to be a real strategic serious reason they're doing this. Something along the lines of self interest. I just can't believe that a 187 billion dollar US company with millions of shareholders would just go out and do what it appears it is doing.

Re: A new approach to China

#148

Post by nshen121 » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:18 AM UTC

liuliu wrote: post #88

there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

给GFW干活的程序员生孩子还能有屁眼吗

Re: A new approach to China

#149

Post by CPCgohell » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:18 AM UTC

liuliu wrote: post #88

there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

Fuck GFW, Fuck CPC. Fuck so-called China!

Re: A new approach to China

#150

Post by gridspy » Wed, Jan 13, 2010, 2:19 AM UTC

netcan wrote: post #92

gridspy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of information about search results in the title, summary and cached versions alone. If the results are "sensitive" to the government, that content is highly likely to contradict the sanitised history that is being handed down.

True. I don't doubt this at all. But.. imagine that the reason you couldn't reach these sites was not political (eg, pay wall). Wouldn't you want your search engine to give you ten links that work.

Of course in this case it is about events such as citizens being run down by tanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_19...

"Currently, due to strong Chinese government censorship including Internet censorship, the news media are forbidden to report anything related to the protests. Websites related to the protest are blocked on the mainland.[94] A search for Tiananmen Square protest information on the Internet in Mainland China largely returns no results, apart from the government-mandated version of the events and the official view, which are mostly found on Websites of People's Daily and other heavily-controlled media.[95]"

If Google was hiding links to US websites that blocked international traffic, fair play. But we are talking about sites that are blocked by government mandate.