A new approach to China • Hacker News Board

Re: A new approach to China

#31

Post by pavs » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:39 PM UTC

credo wrote: post #25

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I hope this increases the pressure on other search providers to do the right thing. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese govt responds

> It will be interesting to see how the Chinese govt responds.

Chinese Gov will be glad if google leaves - they have nothing to loose. Their credibility as an ethical government will be bruised, not that there was any credibility to begin with.

Re: A new approach to China

#32

Post by boundlessdreamz » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:40 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #26

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

What you say is true. Yet is this move in any way inconsistent with how Google has generally been running its business? To me that is the most remarkable fact in the whole affair.

They were willing to censor results. No more. I would say that is a big change in the way they are willing to run the business. Something about this affair must have stung Google. Either morally (going after human rights activists) or in business (increased risks of attacks and infiltration)

Re: A new approach to China

#33

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:41 PM UTC

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

[deleted]

Re: A new approach to China

#34

Post by cakesy » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:42 PM UTC

credo wrote: post #25

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I hope this increases the pressure on other search providers to do the right thing. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese govt responds

Ha, funny. Microsoft will follow the money, no matter that they have to do. They always have an always will. I wish it was different.

Re: A new approach to China

#35

Post by alanthonyc » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:42 PM UTC

recampbell wrote: post #11

maxklein wrote: post #4

It's easy to shut down the site when you are losing the search game to local competition. In any case, even though I find freedom of speech to be necessary and encouraged, I do not think that Google is right to imply in this blog post that the Chinese government is behind the attacks.

I do not think that Google is right to imply in this blog post that the Chinese government is behind the attacks. Unless they have evidence to support that implication...

Google simply stated the facts.

The implication (or more accurately, the inference) is yours.

Re: A new approach to China

#36

Post by siculars » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:42 PM UTC

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I am so proud of Google right now. It's hard to contain. It is high time somoene stood up to China and let them know enough is enough. I sincerely hope other corporations follow suit.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I am sure there is more to the story than is being let on now. I could only imagine the level of corporate espionage that is in play between China and Google. Good for Google calling them on it and making a broad public move.

As far as I'm concerned, Google has just turned me into a lifelong user.

Re: A new approach to China

#37

Post by Flemlord » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:43 PM UTC

Ballmer must be ecstatic.

Re: A new approach to China

#38

Post by there » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:44 PM UTC

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"?

that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these chinese attackers were looking for.

Re: A new approach to China

#39

Post by michaelneale » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:46 PM UTC

pavs wrote: post #31

credo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this increases the pressure on other search providers to do the right thing. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese govt responds

> It will be interesting to see how the Chinese govt responds. Chinese Gov will be glad if google leaves - they have nothing to loose. Their credibility as an ethical government will be bruised, not that there was any credibility to begin with.

Don't assume that the Chinese Gov. are ignorant of PR dangers, they aren't irrational. It would be complex mixed feelings.

Re: A new approach to China

#40

Post by cwan » Tue, Jan 12, 2010, 11:46 PM UTC

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I have to imagine they have also weighed the business calculus on this. Where they might lose in China for now, will enhance their reputation elsewhere - particularly given how they've come under increased criticism in a wide range of fields. This decision whether intentionally so or in keeping with their stated mission is highly symbolic.

Further, don't think this won't help them in China over the long run either. When a "glastnost" comes to China, as it did Russia, if they're clever about marketing, using Google could ultimately be a symbol of new found freedoms. The fact that the Chinese government has made it difficult for them to operate, given competitors an operational advantage and enabled hackers that attack them and other firms, must make it an easier risk to take.

Being the idealist I am, I want to believe, and I think there's a good probability that doing the right thing here, will mean greater profits now and in the future.