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A new approach to China

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Re: A new approach to China

#61

Post by netcan »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #56
boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I hate to be cynical but isn't Google's share in China only equivalent to a pawn sacrifice? If you consider the brand++; in other markets maybe even a gain.

Isn't you charitable donation just a way of making yourself feel better?

Re: A new approach to China

#62

Post by lallysingh »

liuliu wrote: post #55
boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

And for all these years, Google China has done decent job by providing Google Pinyin, Goolge Music for China to the country. I really appreciate that. Hoping this decision was just a beginning of a bigger picture.

Which also makes their departure a bigger negotiating point with the Chinese government.

Re: A new approach to China

#63

Post by cwan »

netcan wrote: post #60
cwan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to imagine they have also weighed the business calculus on this. Where they might lose in China for now, will enhance their reputation elsewhere - particularly given how they've come under increased criticism in a wide range of fields. This decision whether intentionally so or in keeping with their stated mission is highly symbolic. Further, don't think this won't help them in China over the long run either. W…

The more right you are, the more significant this is. Already Google have made a lot of people believe that "Don't be Evil" is a good business strategy. Regardless of the truth of this sentiment, it is to the benefit of society. The more the slogan is fleshed out and the more evidence accrues that this is indeed good business practice, the more companies will follow.

An additional thought: this could potentially be genius from a business strategy standpoint against Microsoft. I confess I've been weighing the possibility of switching to Bing for a variety of reasons but because of this I'm less likely to do so.

After the dust settles, if Google is able to change Chinese government policy on search that would be monumental. If they aren't and ultimately leave China, that puts the spotlight on other infotech firms particularly Microsoft which has far more to lose by leaving China. On the other hand, if Microsoft chooses to do nothing and stay, it reinforces in the minds of users internationally a key point of differentiation between Google and Microsoft.

Re: A new approach to China

#64

Post by lallysingh »

pavs wrote: post #28
code_devil wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well,the decision could also have been made along with the fact that they don't have a large user base. I am guessing "Baidu" is still pretty popular there. I wonder if they would have done the same if they had a 60% penetration in the Chinese market. EDIT: Why am I being downmodded ? I thought we are supposed to have open discussions here. (I did find the actual google mkt share in the TC blog later, but I was prese…

Even if they have 5% market pulling out of china is huge. They currently have ~17% market share in China. No profit-making company in their right mind would pull out of country with ~17% market share.

s/profit-making/profit-centered/

Re: A new approach to China

#65

Post by netcan »

storborg wrote: post #59

If Google has concrete evidence to suggest that the Chinese government was behind these attacks, why did they stop just short of saying so? And if they don't, why would they even consider implying that?

They are treading thin ice.

"We want to make clear that this move was driven by our executives in the United States, without the knowledge or involvement of our employees in China"

I'm glad they are standing up and taking the high road. Still, no need to be stupid.

Re: A new approach to China

#66

Post by ErrantX »

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I think the most amazing thing here is the way they are going about this.

I think it would be naive to imagine that this is a move based solely on ethics (but, then, you never know - I wouldn't want to do them the disservice of ruling it out utterly).

But to do it with such direct criticism of the Chinese government. Even if it is a veiled reference there can be little doubt about the claims. The only inference I can think of is that they are very sure (or have proof) it is the Chinese government that are responsible (I cant help feeling if it was corporate or extremist groups etc. they would be directly named - or at least more clearly referenced). It's a huge political statement.

Im glade I stuck with Google through the last few months and the spate of anti-google sentiment starting to emerge (the cynic might suggest this grand gesture is related...?).

Re: A new approach to China

#67

Post by pyre »

jmtulloss wrote: post #58
there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

Maybe it takes a highly sophisticated attach just to get that much out of gmail.

> the theft of intellectual property from Google

To me, that implies more than just customer information (i.e. private data in a gmail account).

Re: A new approach to China

#68

Post by jjguy »

there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

10 bucks on 0day.

Re: A new approach to China

#69

Post by dskhatri »

This is a huge development. I was just discussing this with friends by email (we should be using Wave) and realized the move, although incredibly noble, could be even more detrimental economically to Google's growth outside the US. Totalitarian governments (of which there are quite a few) will become weary of Google's power and possibly inhibit the company's growth in those countries.

On the other hand, this move will probably placate European countries like France which was recently calling for a tax on Google (and other US companies)[1]

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1041242

Re: A new approach to China

#70

Post by mikedouglas »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #56
boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

I hate to be cynical but isn't Google's share in China only equivalent to a pawn sacrifice? If you consider the brand++; in other markets maybe even a gain.

The latest numbers I could find place Google's search market share in China at 19.8%[0]. Sadly, I think 19.8% of China's internet users is much, much larger than the number of people who decide search providers based on the ethical record of the company.

[0]: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/08/06/google-baidu-sw...

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