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The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

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Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#151

Post by bigbugbag »

jhall1468 wrote: post #118
njharman wrote: post #84

If your business model requires changes to reality, then your business model is probably dead. [If you have lobbying power, you can extend your business model for awhile, perhaps indefinitely ala content industry and copyright.] In other words, adapt your business model to change or die. It's not up to "reality", us, to change to support your business model. If there is demand for whatever you produce, someone will c…

It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. And the people that use the most heavy-handed approaches with ad-blocking are going to be the same people that are screaming "NOT MY PROBLEM" while the ship goes down. Their business model doesn't require changes to reality. Their business model requires the end-user to accept reality for what it…

> It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet.

Except this won't free us from ads, actually the contrary as explained here: http://zen.lk/2015/07/19/Why-you-will-never-escape-ads-by-pa...

> The reality is, ad-blocking will be the absolute death of currency-free content.

The reality is that it's not too late to ditch the ad-based business model and build a better web: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advert...

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#152

Post by malka »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #61
rewqfdsa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advertisers just have to accept Advertisers will adapt. What you have to accept is more annoying advertising coupled with increasingly error-prone code in both ad-blockers and ad-blocker-blockers. The only one that wins is Moloch; everyone else is worse off. > What information one can get from someone's browsing history is awfully invasive. Is it? Advertisers don't get some kind of toast on their phones saying "Joe…

>Advertisers don't get some kind of toast on their phones saying "Joe, 34 from Topeka with a toaster fetish, has just visited your site!" But the likes of Google and Facebook know exactly that. They have it stored somewhere and it's only a matter of time until it gets stolen by organised criminals, religious fanatics or oppressive governments.

This. Facebook and Google combined have probably enough data to blackmail most people in the first world.

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#153

Post by wazoox »

hannob wrote: post #22

This is so common for the many anti-adblock texts you see these days - they all avoid to talk about the major issues here. (I say that with the background that a significant part of my income comes from ad-financed news pages.) That is: * Security risk through ads (malvertising, ad networks not supporting https etc.). * Ads killing performance (70% CPU for a flash ad is not uncommon). * Privacy (Ad vendors having mos…

And don't forget the bandwidth and capacity usage for those on capped mobile data. I only have a 512MB/month allowance, I don't want it spent on downloading ads.

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#154

Post by lazyjones »

hannob wrote: post #22

This is so common for the many anti-adblock texts you see these days - they all avoid to talk about the major issues here. (I say that with the background that a significant part of my income comes from ad-financed news pages.) That is: * Security risk through ads (malvertising, ad networks not supporting https etc.). * Ads killing performance (70% CPU for a flash ad is not uncommon). * Privacy (Ad vendors having mos…

These are all issues for the users, there are other problems with the current system:

* some ad media companies scam their clients by publishing ads on sites where kickback payments are most attractive, rather than where the users are most suitable for the client

* agencies who also design campaigns for their clients tend to use more obnoxious and more commonly blocked ad formats because they're more expensive for the client, hurting both client and publisher (more ad blockers, annoyed users)

* I am also convinced that there's plenty of click fraud out there, but it's the only of these issues I don't know firsthand / as a fact

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#155

Post by jhall1468 »

lazyjones wrote: post #141
jhall1468 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. And the people that use the most heavy-handed approaches with ad-blocking are going to be the same people that are screaming "NOT MY PROBLEM" while the ship goes down. Their business model doesn't require changes to reality. Their business model requires the end-user to accept reality for what it…

> It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. If you think this is going to happen as a result, you must presume that it would be a good - i.e. acceptable and viable - solution. Why do you simultaneously try to use it as a threatening outlook? If enough people perceive it as a threat or discover later that paywalls are even less convenient…

> If you think this is going to happen as a result, you must presume that it would be a good - i.e. acceptable and viable - solution.

What kind of logic are you following? I think dropping a bomb on Paris is going to kill a whole lot of people. How does it follow that because I think that, it stands to reason that I think it's "good".

> some other solution will have to be found

Because we already have a solution. Unobtrusive advertising is a valid trade-off between having to pay currency for content and said content-creators generating money through their content.

I'm not defending advertising to the death here. The main reason ad-blockers exist is because fools with decision-making powers and no critical-thinking skills decided to make ads obtrusive.

But now we are destined to fear-mongering nonsense about Google tracking your every move to justify blocking everything. When that wasn't far enough, we blocked locally installed software applications that track client-side behavior.

Yet, the argument from the "zero tolerance for ads" group is "come up with a better model". We have another model. You pull out your wallet, and enter your credit card.

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#156

Post by Karunamon »

jhall1468 wrote: post #118
njharman wrote: post #84

If your business model requires changes to reality, then your business model is probably dead. [If you have lobbying power, you can extend your business model for awhile, perhaps indefinitely ala content industry and copyright.] In other words, adapt your business model to change or die. It's not up to "reality", us, to change to support your business model. If there is demand for whatever you produce, someone will c…

It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. And the people that use the most heavy-handed approaches with ad-blocking are going to be the same people that are screaming "NOT MY PROBLEM" while the ship goes down. Their business model doesn't require changes to reality. Their business model requires the end-user to accept reality for what it…

If it can't survive without abusing is readers attention, privacy, and security, then I guess the ship needs to go down like the titanic already.

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#157

Post by jhall1468 »

bigbugbag wrote: post #151
jhall1468 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. And the people that use the most heavy-handed approaches with ad-blocking are going to be the same people that are screaming "NOT MY PROBLEM" while the ship goes down. Their business model doesn't require changes to reality. Their business model requires the end-user to accept reality for what it…

> It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. Except this won't free us from ads, actually the contrary as explained here: http://zen.lk/2015/07/19/Why-you-will-never-escape-ads-by-pa... > The reality is, ad-blocking will be the absolute death of currency-free content. The reality is that it's not too late to ditch the ad-based business mod…

> The reality is that it's not too late to ditch the ad-based business model and build a better web

The article is a 10-page document on why "surveillance" (tracking) is evil and effectively offers no solution outside of (maybe) micro-payments as a means to compensate, which directly counters the first argument you made that paying will never free us from ads.

So which is it?

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#158

Post by [deleted] »

bigbugbag wrote: post #151
jhall1468 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. And the people that use the most heavy-handed approaches with ad-blocking are going to be the same people that are screaming "NOT MY PROBLEM" while the ship goes down. Their business model doesn't require changes to reality. Their business model requires the end-user to accept reality for what it…

> It's exactly this kind of attitude that is going to lead to paywalls for virtually every type of content on the Internet. Except this won't free us from ads, actually the contrary as explained here: http://zen.lk/2015/07/19/Why-you-will-never-escape-ads-by-pa... > The reality is, ad-blocking will be the absolute death of currency-free content. The reality is that it's not too late to ditch the ad-based business mod…

[deleted]

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#159

Post by Falkon1313 »

sologoub wrote: post #105
JDDunn9 wrote: post #25

I remember a time on the Internet before ads, when the only websites were made by geeks who were passionate about the topic. Then came the popup ads, followed by the popup blockers, banners never worked, then came contextual ads. Google made it quick and easy to profit from content and made content a commodity. Currently they are the #1 financier of web spam, and pay off ad-blockers to whitelist their ads. There's no…

What you are describing is a world where only big, well financed, or well known entities can survive. In order to keep the amazing internet we actually have, we need to come up with a model that can be used by small upstarts to either serve smaller markets or to give them time to figure things out and become large over time. Requiring people to publish things for free will only result in the most extreme of views. Lo…

There was a web before commercialization (and an internet before that) where people published things for free. There are still topics that people are interested in and thoughts that they want to share and discuss. You just don't notice it now because it's all drowned out by ad-financed clickbait and ads themselves being reposted, reblogged, retweeted, etc. You don't even realize that there is a free signal because of the all the commercial noise.

People still publish personal blogs, comments, threads in forums, free software, help for other people, articles and data, etc. without getting paid for it.

Re: The Devastating Effect of Ad-Blockers for Guru3D.com

#160

Post by cm2187 »

greggman wrote: post #140
junto wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sites need to consider going back to the pre-Double-Click world, where they self hosted and self managed ads. I'd accept that without issue. I don't mind ads, I just can't accept the intrusive tracking, including being retargeted.

I don't think that's what will happen. Ad firms will come up with a server side API you plug into your website so ads can come through your site. You've just made the security problem worse not better as coming from the same site they are allowed to read everything that site does vs coming from iframes from different domains in which case they are allowed to read nothing.

No, the tracking becomes specific to the site visited (same origin policy), not cross-websites, and I don't have a problem with that.

Now there is also the debate of whether all sites deserve to be able to run javascript. I say no. But some people here think that even rendering a blog article should require a lot of client side scripting.

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