Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if part of the B2C difficulty is that insurance pays for most healthcare but (with a few exceptions) not for the lifestyle choices that would reduce healthcare costs. If there was more of an emphasis on preventative measures that insurance paid for, I wonder if it would be different.
One of the biggest barriers to preventative healthcare is that it doesn't pay -- at least not quickly enough to make business sense for an insurer. There's a famous paper that looked for cost-saving interventions in preventing heart attacks and strokes, and it concluded: "As they are currently delivered, almost all of the prevention activities are expensive. If applied fully, using current protocols and the reference…
What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
31–40 of 159 posts
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why doesn't the federal government build an EMR system and require its use as a condition of accepting Medicare payments? Sure, I'd expect a terrible process and result previously (such as the mess healthcare.gov was when rolled out), but I have a lot more faith with the USDS and 18F in place.
They did. VA pioneered emr... OpenVista by medsphere is based on Vista, the gov emr... All emr companies are walled gardens. In 2009 I built the first mobile HL7 compliant client for the iPhone which was emr agnostic and could work with any emr -across an esb... But all emr companies shunned us because they wanted to protect their walled gardens. At the time hospitals shunned us because they didn't believe the iPhone…
Of course, being written in MUMPS (just like some of the other biggies) doesn't help, but the failure of Vista to be implemented commercially has to do with market and human reasons that could have been engineered around. Missed opportunity for the US, really.
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#33A friend of mine works for a digital health startup, and the majority of the RFP's they receive automatically disqualify them if they have anything hosted in the "cloud", so they are forced to buy and maintain all of their own servers.
In addition to these costs (which could already be considered prohibitively expensive) they have to use enterprise versions of proven ETL and BI tools for the perceived added security benefits (i.e. they can't use open source).
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why doesn't the federal government build an EMR system and require its use as a condition of accepting Medicare payments? Sure, I'd expect a terrible process and result previously (such as the mess healthcare.gov was when rolled out), but I have a lot more faith with the USDS and 18F in place.
They did. VA pioneered emr... OpenVista by medsphere is based on Vista, the gov emr... All emr companies are walled gardens. In 2009 I built the first mobile HL7 compliant client for the iPhone which was emr agnostic and could work with any emr -across an esb... But all emr companies shunned us because they wanted to protect their walled gardens. At the time hospitals shunned us because they didn't believe the iPhone…
In my experience, there's no such thing. HL7 is a spec in only the loosest sense of the word. Half the time you had an 80-character console output dumped into the "freetext" fields. Then there's all the codes used for different drugs, tests, admission/discharge (plus differentiating when they're standardized or user-entered with appropriate typos).
Point is, all the costs were really in the integration. Getting access to the HL7 streams wasn't bad once you got far enough in the sales cycle. Once you had it, it was a one-off project to parse the specifics of the messages. And that was just for a read-only analytics system... trying to generate compatible messages to feed back to the EHR is a whole other beast.
That's the challenge getting into this space if you're a web or cloud engineer... you come in with the mindset that "oh, HL7 is a messaging standard, I'll just read the spec and use it." In practice, there's an infinite amount of variability. You really need to treat each hospital as it's own one-off integration, plus all the politics needed to get access to the messages in the first place.
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#35BTW, while I would love to improve the healthcare industry and I wish you the best of luck, I don't think software is the primary problem. Sure, it is very expensive and always 10 years out of date. But the real problem is government and the payer model. I'm excited to see where retail clinic initiatives like CVS's go, since that's actually a real change to how I, the patient, get care. Instead of consulting my insur…
Agreed 110%.
> Having prices so high that only insurers can pay them means only insurers DO pay them and since hospitals and clinics know this they can charge whatever they want.
I've explained this in more detail on another recent HN thread, but basically: prices are 'so high that only insurers can pay them' by design, but it's not for the reason most people think.
It is generally illegal for providers (hospitals/doctors/etc.) to charge different rates to different patients based on their insurance status[0]. However, it is not illegal for providers to negotiate standard rates for specific payers. Combine this with the fact that providers lose money on their publicly-insured patients[1], and it becomes clear that they have to overcharge the rest in order to end up in the black.
So what they do is set absurdly high sticker prices, knowing that the private insurers will negotiate those down (usually this is done in multiples of what Medicare pays - e.g., Aetna will say, 'We'll pay you 150% of the Medicare price for billing code 99481 this year'.
Uninsured patients are stuck with huge bills as a result, though this is basically an unintentional side-effect of the fact that hospitals can't give them lower bills initially. It's also the reason that hospitals are almost always willing to negotiate with uninsured patients. If they know to ask, they can almost always get that down to 10% of the original rate. That bill isn't meant for individuals, they don't really expect individuals to pay, and they'd much rather negotiate a discount and have it paid in full immediately than have a patient default, which has negative repercussions for their bad debt ratio.
Privately insured patients end up having higher premiums as a result, because their insurers are paying higher rates to subsidize other patients who are not paying any premiums at all (publicly insured patients)[2].
[0] There's a little nuance to this, but that's the general idea.
[1] Medicare reimburses less than the actual costs of services provided per-patient, before accounting for any overhead
[2] This subsidy happens at the claims level, so it counts towards the insurer's requisite MLR.
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#36This makes it sound like opening an API up to the public is akin to flipping on a light switch, which as we all know is rather misleading. There are significant investments and expenditures (documentation, support, etc.) to make if you want to properly serve up a public API and no, not every company does those things as a side effect of developing a product.
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#37BTW, while I would love to improve the healthcare industry and I wish you the best of luck, I don't think software is the primary problem. Sure, it is very expensive and always 10 years out of date. But the real problem is government and the payer model. I'm excited to see where retail clinic initiatives like CVS's go, since that's actually a real change to how I, the patient, get care. Instead of consulting my insur…
> (Insurance was originally for catastrophic care where the cost for a major illness or surgery would get too high.) Agreed 110%. > Having prices so high that only insurers can pay them means only insurers DO pay them and since hospitals and clinics know this they can charge whatever they want. I've explained this in more detail on another recent HN thread, but basically: prices are 'so high that only insurers can pa…
Hospitals don't even know what a given service costs, so this statement seems to need a little more equivocation around it.
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#38I worked for a company in a total different sector that eventually ended up being acquired for a significant amount of money.
More or less the company 'succeeded' because almost everything 'product' wise was window dress. the actual value of the company was the fact that we had done the legwork to integrate with dozens and dozens of difficult legacy systems and was able to expose them in a single unified API that our 'product' used. The purchasers didnt really value the 'product' or the companies 'brand' they valued the integration and the business relationships with the integration partners that were necessary to keep these integrations working...
Seems like what the article is really saying is that in this particular market the money is in the integration not the 'product' over the integration.
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#39Give me a fucking break. HIPAA compliance is actually an issue. Published APIs may have benefits to businesses, but what is the benefit to the patients? He claims this hurts patients when his only evidence is his company couldn't cut it. HIPAA was written in the interest of patients who don't want the entire world to know they are HIV positive or have had 5000 sex partners because they are a sex worker or whatever. L…
I work on a SOA team for a large healthcare organization, so I'm well aware of the issues. The problem comes down to the usual case of entrenched vendors working to protect and expand their turf. EHR vendors are notorious for being terrible for interop—some are better than others, but they all see integrations as competing with their own offerings. Non-trendy methods of exposing data—SOAP, custom MUMPS code, direct SQL access—are the norm. That's not a problem, except that documentation is often incorrect or nonexistent (while being restricted to direct customers, of course), and the vendors really don't care about APIs. They see interop as a necessary bullet point on a sales sheet, but they'd rather not have those APIs be used in place of their (usually crappy) complementary apps that they're trying to upsell.
Interop is a HUGE win for patients. Without it, we lose one of the main advantages of EHRs—the ability to access our own information when we need it, and allowing the information to be fluidly shared between providers. Of course, privacy is paramount—but in my experience, interop is not the attack vector I'm most concerned about.
Re: What’s Really Killing Digital Health Startups
#4020-30 years ago, if you had a problem, you went to a doctor and that was about it. Now, people are more likely to choose to (or forced to by cost) seek alternative practitioners or at least partially take matters into their own hands (independent research, dietary and lifestyle changes, etc). These will usually be people who are not really getting helped by the system and are probably facing issues where lifestyle is a big factor (autoimmune issues, diabetes, obesity, etc). If you can successfully help that group of people where the system has failed to, then you may start to see some real changes as most people ultimately will (eventually) gravitate to what actually works (yes, I am an optimist).
Of course, as another commenter mentioned, we tend to be terrible at doing things now to benefit our future selves, but I still believe technology could play a big role in helping with that and the current options, like wearing a fitbit, are barely scratching the surface, mainly in that they aren't yet doing much to prove their benefit to the consumer or obviously help them day-to-day. That is a really hard task when health changes occur over long timespans but at least it is just hard-hard, not EMR/politics-hard.