You have to die somewhere, why not die on Mars?
It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
41–50 of 79 posts
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#42I agreed with the author somewhat, up until here: "There is nothing wrong with being excited about exploring space. There’s nothing wrong with dreaming about setting up colonies in space either. But a colony on Mars would need to be a nearly perfectly self-contained, resource neutral system that harvests energy from the sun and is rarely or never re-supplied. That is currently beyond the reach of science and human in…
Even if we ignore the financial cost, we are nowhere near being technically able to build a self-contained environment. We have never done it in Earth's orbit, or in the Moon, or in Earth.
So the problem with sending people to Mars is that it is not just a huge one time money sink. It is a permanent money sink, that would have to be constantly re-supplied.
People didn't just get in a boat one day and suddenly discovered America. They had been able to survive in a boat for months or years for a long time before they even got there. Nobody is saying that we should never get to Mars, just that there are previous technological goals that we are nowhere near solving yet.
Solve those goals one by one, and at some point you'll be able to get to Mars. But don't expect to stuff some people in a ship with a few lettuces and some water and send them to Mars without having worked out first all the boring little details of what such a travel would actually entail.
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#43Its entertaining and has some truth in it but arguments about "we should be focusing on [blah] instead..." miss out on the benefits of the tech that exploration will bring. Going to Mars will help solve issues here and issues being solved here will help us succeed in living at Mars, eventually.
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#44Good points comparing colonizing Mars to colonizing places on Earth such as Antarctica, the Sahara, or the bottom of the oceans.
I was driving around near Oregon's lake Abert a month or so ago, and got to thinking "if people can live here, Mars shouldn't be that hard". Kidding, but... not too much. That's some desolate, high, dry, hot and cold country out there.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+Abert,+Oregon+97630/@...
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
gp is not complaining about current state of NASA, but about a hypothetical adventure with high chance of failure that would burn enough money to send a dozen robotic probes to every planet in the solar system.
> send a dozen robotic probes to every planet in the solar system. And not have any dividends at all in terms of sustainable environmental cycles....
Why do you hate freedom, err, I mean, better robotics, batteries, and solar panel technology? :P
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#46> But a colony on Mars would need to be a nearly perfectly self-contained, resource neutral system that harvests energy from the sun and is rarely or never re-supplied. That is currently beyond the reach of science and human ingenuity. It is no where near the limits of our reach. We already have people living in space year round without any local resources. What we do seem to lack however is any faith in ourselves.
> We already have people living in space year round without any local resources. You're joking, right? The ISS gets everything from Earth, even its water, and they're so bad at self-sustainability that they are not able to wash their own dirty clothes (I shit you not). Oh, and they throw away their feces and only recently were able to grow some lettuce on board. That's the state of the art right now.
You realize that although LEO is cheaper to resupply it is actually more inhospitable right? There is by definition no resources available save sunlight.
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#47The author's main argument seems to be that nobody will want to do it. But historically, there have been numerous cases of colonists giving up a safe, easy life to go live somewhere inhospitable and dangerous. When I think about the first settlers that sailed across the Atlantic to colonize America, it seems amazing to me that people were willing to give up so much and endure such risks and hardships, but there have…
Europeans explored the New World to find faster shipping routes for existing trade. And they colonized it because it had proven resources (gold, furs, etc). They didn't do it for the romanticized reasons you suggest. In contrast, exploring and colonizing Mars is only justified by romantic reasons.
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#48> Our 12-year-old daughter who, like us, is a big fan of The Martian by Andy Weir, said, “I can’t stand that people think we’re all going to live on Mars after we destroy our own planet. Even after we’ve made the Earth too hot and polluted for humans, it still won’t be as bad as Mars. At least there’s plenty of water here, and the atmosphere won’t make your head explode.” Kid has a good head on her shoulders. She sou…
We have burned more money for less reason also make your head explode?
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#49Wow, that was a sad read. I general tone was "My god, our planet is on fire and you want to spend time and resources going somewhere else?" Which I understand, after all we're spoon fed that message every day, but if you think critically about it you realize that the species as a whole will have to figure out how to live on Mars or its doomed anyway.
I get the emotional angst, many people will remember that point where they realized "Hey my parents aren't going to be here forever, if I don't get job and stuff I'm dooooooomed." It's a scary thing because it involves doing something you may have never done before or may have tried to do and failed a couple of times. But once you internalize the fact that your parents are mortal and of finite resources and you can't change that, you put that fear aside and start figuring out life "for real."
The same thing is true with this planet. Our ability to monitor it and study it has reached a point where we realize the environment we currently live in is going to change, and change harshly. While we're currently the proximate cause of that change we know there are many things that can cause that change and have in the past. Perhaps not in the living memory of our species but we've certainly seen the humans frozen in glaciers right? So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter why the climate changes, we must evolve our thinking so that we can live on an airless moon, or a chilly planet far from oceans and abundant greenery.
And getting serious about it means picking a problem to solve and solving it. If we can create a self sustaining colony on Mars for example I have no trouble believing we can create cities on earth that survive what ever changes come in the climate. And if we have self sustaining cities on Mars and Earth then if one gets blasted by an asteroid (known to happen) the other one can help out instead of everyone just dying.
Its the difference between moving forward into the future knowing what you have to over come, and hiding in the past hoping to somehow prevent the future you fear.
Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars
#50Good points comparing colonizing Mars to colonizing places on Earth such as Antarctica, the Sahara, or the bottom of the oceans.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I think it's a fair comparison given that those Earth-based locations are easier to colonize, yet haven't been.
We have permanent bases in Antarctica. Could we establish a colony there? Very likely. Given we have some people live there nearly year round, I'm sure we could, actually. But why would we?
The "why?" for Mars is "What happens if Earth is fucked Completely, royally, and absolutely fucked."
What happens when a catastrophic event wipes out all life on Earth? Colonizing Antarctica or the Sahara does nothing to ensure human survival in that case. But putting people on Mars and creating a self-sufficient colony? As long as Mars isn't fucked too - humans might live on. There are plenty of people who are interested in human survival.