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It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

qz.com

21–30 of 79 posts

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#21

> But a colony on Mars would need to be a nearly perfectly self-contained, resource neutral system that harvests energy from the sun and is rarely or never re-supplied. That is currently beyond the reach of science and human ingenuity. It is no where near the limits of our reach. We already have people living in space year round without any local resources. What we do seem to lack however is any faith in ourselves.

> We already have people living in space year round without any local resources.

You're joking, right? The ISS gets everything from Earth, even its water, and they're so bad at self-sustainability that they are not able to wash their own dirty clothes (I shit you not). Oh, and they throw away their feces and only recently were able to grow some lettuce on board. That's the state of the art right now.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#22

> But a colony on Mars would need to be a nearly perfectly self-contained, resource neutral system that harvests energy from the sun and is rarely or never re-supplied. That is currently beyond the reach of science and human ingenuity. It is no where near the limits of our reach. We already have people living in space year round without any local resources. What we do seem to lack however is any faith in ourselves.

It may not be beyond our reach, but it is beyond my tolerance as to what I am willing to support as a taxpayer.

Why? NASA has paid HUGE dividends.

>Estimates of the return on investment in the spaaace program range from $7 for every $1 spent on the Apollo Program to $40 for every $1 spent on spaaace development today. [1]

That money is generally spent in the US, on good, high-paying jobs.[2] The products NASA has created are EVERYWHERE[3] — The general rule of thumb is if it's wireless, fireproof, or small, it's using technology based off NASA work.

1: http://www.nss.org/settlement/nasa/spaceresvol4/newspace3.ht... 2: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lauren-lyons/misconceptions-na... 3: http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0812/the-roi-of-s...

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#23

Think of all the great innovations that have come from people who realized that doing hard stuff is hard so don't try.

And what of those men and women wise enough to work on what was good and needed rather than what they had in their _wildest_ dreams?

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#24
The author's main argument seems to be that nobody will want to do it. But historically, there have been numerous cases of colonists giving up a safe, easy life to go live somewhere inhospitable and dangerous.

When I think about the first settlers that sailed across the Atlantic to colonize America, it seems amazing to me that people were willing to give up so much and endure such risks and hardships, but there have always been people that will go to great lengths to conquer new frontiers. I expect the first Martians will be no different in this respect.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#25
Every year, tens of thousands of people visit Antarctica, a place with nothing besides cold deserts and penguins.[1]

We are not making the Earth less inhabitable. More people live on the planet now than ever before. In fact, many really smart people over the years have told us that the planet would never be able to support the current population.

There's an undercurrent in this article that's extremely dour, depressing, and bleak. I take issue with that, but we can save that conversation for another day.

People will visit Mars. In fact, for many decades it looks like tourism will be the prominent industry.

Mars has water. Mars has CO2. We can make a breathable atmosphere and support ourselves, although it looks like living mostly underground is our best option for the foreseeable future. In my mind, what we need is cheap/free energy.

Nuclear batteries look like the best option, at least initially. Also a modular, standardized deployment system where things plug into each other. It'd be good if for a while we equip every piece of gear going to Mars with power and an O2/water generator.

No matter how it plays out it'll be interesting to watch. Too bad it will probably take a long time before we see a sizable population there.

[1] Tourism in Antarctica. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Antarctica

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#27
I think the article is not fully exploring the economic argument.

Triumph of the city/network effect argument: Networking and connectedness into other people and increasingly into computer services around the world provide more intellectual satisfaction than surviving in the desert does. Mass of humanity produces more variety when it clumps together physically. Urbanization on the earth is driven by productivity growth from cities. Immigration to distant colonies could be justified with farmland and resources in pre-industrial society and industrial society. If post-industrial society with deceasing population builds distant colonies, it wastes resources.

After the thrill of interplanetary space travel wears off, Mars may have small outpost for geologists, geochemists etc. I think colonizing moon will be far more likely when technology allows it. You can have access to Earth and communication lag is acceptable. Moon colony may be economically profitable.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#28
I don't buy the author's arguments in general, but I think the comparison to Antarctica is probably the weakest. First of all, people have actually made a point of traveling to and setting-up permanent base stations in Antarctica. Second, although the raw temperatures might be similar it is the weather in Antarctica that is brutal. Bryd Station exists in blizzard-like conditions 65% of the year [1]. Obviously this would not be a concern on Mars.

[1]: http://antarcticconnection.com/information/storms-and-blizza...

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#29

Think of all the great innovations that have come from people who realized that doing hard stuff is hard so don't try.

And what of those men and women wise enough to work on what was good and needed rather than what they had in their _wildest_ dreams?

I'm sure those wise people you mentioned would also be wise enough to see through a false choice like that.

Good thing for us all that it isn't an either/or.

Fortunately some people can work on the good and needed. And some people can work on the hard, maybe even the too hard to see at first that it's even possible.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be beyond our reach, but it is beyond my tolerance as to what I am willing to support as a taxpayer.

Why? NASA has paid HUGE dividends. >Estimates of the return on investment in the spaaace program range from $7 for every $1 spent on the Apollo Program to $40 for every $1 spent on spaaace development today. [1] That money is generally spent in the US, on good, high-paying jobs.[2] The products NASA has created are EVERYWHERE[3] — The general rule of thumb is if it's wireless, fireproof, or small, it's using technolo…

gp is not complaining about current state of NASA, but about a hypothetical adventure with high chance of failure that would burn enough money to send a dozen robotic probes to every planet in the solar system.
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