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VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

reuters.com

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Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#51

Post by LoSboccacc »

DanBC wrote: post #37
ams6110 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they got bailed out by the US taxpayers. I am just astonished at the outrage over some skirting of an arbitrary number in an emissions standard, in contrast to the comparative yawn over the things other automakers have done that they knew would actually kill people.

Diesel emissions kill tens of thousands of people each year. It's probably hundreds of thousands across Europe. VW's scam has added to those deaths. VW killed far more than 150 people.

you're way off

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-vw-pollution-footprint...

http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-estimate-the-death-to...

while pollution will affects almost everyone on earth, the cumulative effect is not that much and pollution is not a major cause for deaths to begin with

http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.wrapper.ENVHEALTH3?lang=en...

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#52

Post by mikestew »

adevine wrote: post #33
mikestew wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish CEOs stopped being rewarded for screwing up. CEOs typically aren't rewarded for screwing up, they get rewarded for signing up. Any severance package is most likely negotiated before they they take the job so as to get them to show up in the first place. Now why it's that way is a different discussion. Want me as CEO of GroupOn or Yahoo? Damned straight you're giving me a severance package whether I screw up or…

> Want me as CEO of GroupOn or Yahoo? Damned straight you're giving me a severance package whether I screw up or not, otherwise I'm taking a less risky job. Why? Tons of employees take on this risk when joining a startup, and they don't get a huge severance package. Risk should be aligned with reward - if you succeed you should be very well compensated for a risky gig, but if you fail you shouldn't also be very well…

Why?

I said why: I'll take the equally-well-paying and less risky job over at FoobarCorp, which is turning a profit and shows no signs of doing otherwise for the foreseeable future, where I might be employed for a good long while and leave without a black mark on my resume. If I'm going to have the albatross around my neck of not turning around an already screwed company, you're paying me whether I turn it around or not.

Don't shoot the messenger, I don't like it any more than you do. I'm just laying out what the current incentive system is. Should Fiorina just scraped by on her $4 million/year (or whatever it was) salary, and made big stacks from her options when she turned HP around? Sure, just like the rest of us. But that, unfortunately, isn't the way it works. Instead the rest of us get to sit around saying, "hell, I would have been happy to fuck up HP for half that amount", because we're not members of the "get paid whether you do a decent job or not" club.

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#53

Post by LoSboccacc »

DanBC wrote: post #48
autobahn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Citation Needed]

Air pollution kills 60,000 people per year: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/air-pollution... NO2 kills about 2,600 people each year in London. > The effects of the gas are particularly pronounced in London, where the Greater London Authority already recognises that it prematurely kills 2,600 Londoners each year; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/volksw... Across Europe this is easil…

NOx emission from road cars is only a percentage of air NOx > like, 34% [1]

VW market share is about 20% of that [2]

so about 4000 deaths if they polluted their fair share, but since they polluted 20% to 40% more that's about 2000/year additional deaths?

numbers are all over the place however, too many uncertainties and unmeasurable factors.

also my number doesn't come anywhere close to other estimates[3]

[1] http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/reports/aqeg/nd-...

[2] http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/...

[3] http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-estimate-the-death-to...

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#54

Post by refurb »

adevine wrote: post #33
mikestew wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish CEOs stopped being rewarded for screwing up. CEOs typically aren't rewarded for screwing up, they get rewarded for signing up. Any severance package is most likely negotiated before they they take the job so as to get them to show up in the first place. Now why it's that way is a different discussion. Want me as CEO of GroupOn or Yahoo? Damned straight you're giving me a severance package whether I screw up or…

> Want me as CEO of GroupOn or Yahoo? Damned straight you're giving me a severance package whether I screw up or not, otherwise I'm taking a less risky job. Why? Tons of employees take on this risk when joining a startup, and they don't get a huge severance package. Risk should be aligned with reward - if you succeed you should be very well compensated for a risky gig, but if you fail you shouldn't also be very well…

Tons of employees take on this risk when joining a startup, and they don't get a huge severance package.

Yes, but tons of employees don't get hired into key roles that can make or break a company.

It's no different than the packages you see tech companies give "rock stars" who are nowhere near the CEO level. If they really want the person, they'll bend over backwards to throw guaranteed compensation at them.

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#55

Post by DanBC »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #51
DanBC wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diesel emissions kill tens of thousands of people each year. It's probably hundreds of thousands across Europe. VW's scam has added to those deaths. VW killed far more than 150 people.

you're way off http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-vw-pollution-footprint... http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-estimate-the-death-to... while pollution will affects almost everyone on earth, the cumulative effect is not that much and pollution is not a major cause for deaths to begin with http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.wrapper.ENVHEALTH3?lang=en...

From your link:

> At present, outdoor air pollution kills in excess of 3 million people every year, and automobile exhaust is a significant part of the problem.

Are you talking about this bit?

> the harmful nitrogen oxides emitted by Volkswagen’s affected diesel vehicles – which the US Environmental Agency claims were 40 times higher than the legal level – could be responsible for as many as 106 deaths in the US between 2009 and 2015.

That's the US, where diesel is not as common as Europe.

Your link says that:

> From a global perspective, the actual death toll could be much higher.

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#56

Post by louhike »

mikestew wrote: post #26
mtgx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't fired, so he shouldn't be getting a "severance package". He resigned. He shouldn't be getting anything for the tens of billions of dollars in damage caused to the company. I wish CEOs stopped being rewarded for screwing up. What's worse is that VW is still pushing the narrative that only two engineers are at fault here, and it refuses to blame the CEO, even though it keeps finding millions and millions of o…

I wish CEOs stopped being rewarded for screwing up. CEOs typically aren't rewarded for screwing up, they get rewarded for signing up. Any severance package is most likely negotiated before they they take the job so as to get them to show up in the first place. Now why it's that way is a different discussion. Want me as CEO of GroupOn or Yahoo? Damned straight you're giving me a severance package whether I screw up or…

Shouldn't their salaries be enough as a compensation?

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#57

Post by rockdoe »

sp332 wrote: post #5
Someone1234 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can be re-programmed to stay within emissions. The user just might feel the driving experience worsens as a result.

Some of them will need new hardware to reduce NOx emissions in real-world driving conditions.

No other car makers get their emissions tested in real-world driving conditions, so that's irrelevant.

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#59

Post by nilkn »

gregwtmtno wrote: post #21
nilkn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of that is a pension already earned, not severance, and the other half is a theoretical calculation from the article based on the maximum severance he could receive.

Earned? Accrued maybe, but I don't think earned is the appropriate word.

It was earned in the same sense that any income or salary is earned. It's agreed upon payment exchanged for an agreed upon service. It was just as much a part of his compensation as his base salary.

Re: VW slumps to first quarterly loss in at least 15 years

#60

Post by ceejayoz »

forgetsusername wrote: post #20
ceejayoz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He resigned, with a potential €60 million payout coming his way. More than firing is due here - people should be going to jail for criminal fraud.

> More than firing is due here - people should be going to jail for criminal fraud. How about they prove criminal fraud before we talk about locking people up?

Someone committed criminal fraud. You don't accidentally put a defeat device like this into a car.
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