More parents, students saying 'no' to homework • Hacker News Board

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#141

Post by zaphar » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 7:54 PM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #47

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a disservice to say some other home life takes higher priority than education Schooling is not education, only a facsimile of it.

Perfect is the enemy of better. There is huge room for improvement in our education system, but that doesn't mean we'd be better off with nothing.

Which is not what the poster above was saying at all. Public schooling is a necessity because not everyone can afford to homeschool or hire a personal tutor for their children. That point is not under dispute.

However denying parents the input of their far superior knowledge regarding the workload their child has as well as implying (intended or not) that the homework situation does not need improvement is denying the very real problem that kids are stressed and overworked. Some as early as kindergarten.

One perfect valid grass roots solution to this is for parents to push back against the school. And unless schools start changing it's the only solution available to parents of those stressed and overworked children.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#142

Post by gk_brown » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 7:58 PM UTC

riot504 wrote: post #77

JadeNB wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you mean the sports practice: I also personally value homework more than sports practice, but it seems callous and self-centred to assume that our own preferences are automatically right for others.

Sports teach kids about teamwork, working together, and how hard work pays off. I have found more use from what I learned in sports than any homework assignment.

And yet, most of the population won't end up making a living from their sporting accomplishments. However, they will get a job based on what they learned (or didn't learn) in school.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#143

Post by ericssmith » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 7:59 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #62

zaccus wrote: post #8

Seriously, parents are complaining about 10-20 min of homework a night? Kids should be spending 1-2 hrs on homework every night, and if they run out of homework they should be working on a personal project or reading. That doesn't have to encroach on their fun time; I'm talking about 2 hrs max. Every night. That's not asking a lot. It's about learning how to manage your time and developing a productive routine. Kids…

Let's look at my first-grader's schedule. Kids need more sleep than adults, so we aim for about 11 hours. (For teens, they recommend 10, last I checked.) School is 7 hours. 1.5 hours for gymnastics, sports, or some other extra-curricular activity. An hour of transit. Another hour for breakfast and dinner (assuming all they do is sit down and eat, and don't help prepare anything or do the dishes). An hour for a bath.…

Since I appreciate seeing someone else's schedule, figured I would post ours. I have 6 and 8yo. and we live quite close to school.

  10.5 - sleep
  0.75 - morning routine (teeth, dress, find lost things)
  7    - school 
  0.5  - transit
  2.75 - free time
  0.5  - dinner
  0.5  - evening routine (pjs,teeth, don't take bath every day)
  0.5  - workbooks & parent tutoring or school homework
  0.5  - independent reading of chapter books
  0.5  - stories read to them

By time they get to workbooks, they are quite tired. But they are used to being tutored in small doses so they get through it. At this point, all structured activities outside of school are on the weekend (e.g. girl scouts, soccer). Also, ideally they would go to bed 1/2 hr earlier.

Because we personally tutor our kids, I'm sure we will resent an increased homework burden as they get older, especially as we are able to tutor to a relatively high level for most subjects. Unfortunately the school does not coordinate with us on the learning objectives, so we more or less rely on Common Core standards to know what's expected.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#144

Post by Overtonwindow » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 8:01 PM UTC

I think homework is necessary for some subjects, like math and physics, because practice is where the learning comes from IMHO. In other subjects, homework is anachronistic. I think we should extend the school day like Japan, and build homework and social networks into the school setting.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#145

Post by JshWright » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 8:02 PM UTC

ilovefood wrote: post #114

After refusing them to get proper vaccination, let's prevent them from getting proper education. Evolution baby!

"Vaccinations are effective at preventing disease, with minimal side effects."

"Hours of homework (after 7 hours of school) is 'proper education'."

Are you really claiming that those two statements have a remotely similar body of evidence supporting them?

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#146

Post by gk_brown » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 8:03 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #84

zaccus wrote: post #8

Seriously, parents are complaining about 10-20 min of homework a night? Kids should be spending 1-2 hrs on homework every night, and if they run out of homework they should be working on a personal project or reading. That doesn't have to encroach on their fun time; I'm talking about 2 hrs max. Every night. That's not asking a lot. It's about learning how to manage your time and developing a productive routine. Kids…

A healthy adult's productive routine doesn't involve taking an additional 1-2 hours of work home from their job and doing it in the evenings. Why should a child's?

I agree that 1 - 2 hours of homework may be excessive. However, 10, 20, or even 30 minutes seems reasonable to me, assuming that it reinforces what is being taught in school.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#147

Post by derefr » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 8:04 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #140

dgrant wrote: post #129

This is crazy, I don't know where I would be today if I hadn't done homework. Homework was where I really and truly learned. Independent work is so important, and it's totally different than doing something with a bunch of students in a classroom setting. Sure, the education system probably could be improved a lot. But you can't just remove homework from the current system and expect there will be no negative consequ…

You and your daughter will end up as people that can contribute something great to the society; most of the ones skipping the homework without innate talent not, and they will complain about how unfairly are they treated because they are smart. One of my piano teachers was forced to practice through tears as a kid because they saw the talent she had. She went on to becoming a world famous child prodigy playing grade…

> She went on to becoming a world famous child prodigy playing grade 8 pieces by sight-reading with unbelievable ease.

...and did that get her anywhere as an adult?

It seems to me that so many people are excited when their children are ahead of the curve, doing "adult"-level things at a young age—and just assume they'll stay ahead forever, forging on beyond the norm, rather than reverting to the mean.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#148

Post by RogerL » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 8:05 PM UTC

dgrant wrote: post #129

This is crazy, I don't know where I would be today if I hadn't done homework. Homework was where I really and truly learned. Independent work is so important, and it's totally different than doing something with a bunch of students in a classroom setting. Sure, the education system probably could be improved a lot. But you can't just remove homework from the current system and expect there will be no negative consequ…

There is a pretty wide gulf between no homework, ever, and the kinds of loads being placed on some kids. You talk about "a few" words a week. My friend's kids (I have none) end up staying up until 1am, forgoing family and friend time, just to keep up with the work demands. We invited a family to do something with us - the response was that they might be able to do something in 6 or so months due to the kids schedule. And no, this wasn't a blow off, it was an honest assessment of the demands on their kids. It is just barking mad.

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#149

Post by JshWright » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 8:05 PM UTC

gk_brown wrote: post #142

riot504 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports teach kids about teamwork, working together, and how hard work pays off. I have found more use from what I learned in sports than any homework assignment.

And yet, most of the population won't end up making a living from their sporting accomplishments. However, they will get a job based on what they learned (or didn't learn) in school.

You think there is no value in participating in sports outside of the direct results of "sporting accomplishments"?

Re: More parents, students saying 'no' to homework

#150

Post by RogerL » Tue, Oct 27, 2015, 8:07 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #82

JamesBarney wrote: post #45

I am in total agreement that children have better things to do than homework. Such as learning how to play and interact with others. Learn how to deal with adversity. How to deal with the sadness of a break up or not being included. Learning how to lead a team via Counter Strike or WOW. Learning computers by writing a mod for a favorite computer game. These things taught me far more than a worksheet on a very idealiz…

Repetition is an important part of learning. Expecting all children to understand what was taught in class is unrealistic. This is why homework is assigned - so the student may take their time to review the parts they themselves didn't fully grasp in class. The time spent doing homework varies from child to child and this is important - kids who need longer to accomplish the same task will have that time because they…

I spent weeks and weeks doing the same thing over and over - multiply these 2 digit numbers together. Multiply these three digit numbers together. next week? 4 digit numbers!!! Some people needed to do that, some didn't. What is wrong with work until you get it, instead of having to do page after page of rote work when you have clearly demonstrated that you understand the material?