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Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

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Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#61

Post by matt4077 »

michaelbuddy wrote: post #53
gambiting wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this statement means is that your pensioners should be getting more money, not that refugees should be getting less. Likewise, you should be making more money than you do, if your income is lower than refugee support money. I see this argument repeated ad nauseam and it's really upsetting, because it's basically saying that other people should have it worse for the sake of having it worse.

You do realize where money comes from right? That the refugees get any thing when actual tax, social security, disability was paid into by citizens for citizens and even if it was as available as you think it should be, the citizens are having their money funneled and real estate taken from them in ways that are unsettling and downright disgraceful.

The cost of the refugee crisis for Germany will be about 8 billion in 2015. That's more than postage but still less than 100€ per citizen. On the grand economic scale, it barely registers. Compared to the plight of these people (which some may argue the west is somewhat responsible for), it is hardly enough to get jealous.

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#62

Post by michaelbuddy »

sabertoothed wrote: post #34
tonomics wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise an interesting point, but the refugee 'crisis' is not driven by rationality, history, culture or even morality. It's a sad, numb and nihilistic political game.

Why is that? I am German - and I support the acceptance of refugees because of rationality, history, culture and especially morality.

You morally accept them but can't functionally accept them. And morals have this downside of interfering with others in an unfair and dangerous ways. Sweden and rapes for a clear example.

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#63

Post by gambiting »

michaelbuddy wrote: post #53
gambiting wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this statement means is that your pensioners should be getting more money, not that refugees should be getting less. Likewise, you should be making more money than you do, if your income is lower than refugee support money. I see this argument repeated ad nauseam and it's really upsetting, because it's basically saying that other people should have it worse for the sake of having it worse.

You do realize where money comes from right? That the refugees get any thing when actual tax, social security, disability was paid into by citizens for citizens and even if it was as available as you think it should be, the citizens are having their money funneled and real estate taken from them in ways that are unsettling and downright disgraceful.

Yeah, I pay for it in my taxes and I am very happy the money goes to these causes. And your statement about real estate being taken from anyone is just outright false.

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#64

Post by hugh4 »

matt4077 wrote: post #61
michaelbuddy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize where money comes from right? That the refugees get any thing when actual tax, social security, disability was paid into by citizens for citizens and even if it was as available as you think it should be, the citizens are having their money funneled and real estate taken from them in ways that are unsettling and downright disgraceful.

The cost of the refugee crisis for Germany will be about 8 billion in 2015. That's more than postage but still less than 100€ per citizen. On the grand economic scale, it barely registers. Compared to the plight of these people (which some may argue the west is somewhat responsible for), it is hardly enough to get jealous.

And how much will the cost be by 2045?

The entire fucking country and its culture, presumably.

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#65

Post by legulere »

tdkl wrote: post #44
sccxy wrote: post #22

I'm living in one of poor EU countries. I earn less money than they pay for refugees. Our pensioners get less money than these 'refugees' with Armani clothing...

Don't be a dick indeed, work more, so you can earn more and pay more taxes for the immigrants (if they were refugees they would stay whereever help was offered instead of storming to Germany), because those loans won't pay by itself and USA, IMF and the banks surely won't write that off. Right now my country is stormed by them and can barely keep up. Schengen is a joke, same as the EU. This will probably be down vote…

So they would stay in Hungary instead which already has more refugees per capita than Germany and is totally overwhelmed? Or in Greece which is in the middle of a crisis itself? How about Lebanon and Turkey where there are more than 10 times as much refugees, where refugees have no perspective of being able to work and where basic needs of life are not guaranteed.

Free speech is about the right to express oneself, it has nothing to with people not being allowed to disagree with you.

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#66

Post by hugh4 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #59
dudul wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was wrong with sovereign nations? A step towards what? This is the big scam of the 21st century. People think that big blobs are stronger than smaller, more focused and cohesive entities. Smaller countries all over the world are doing just fine.

A step towards unified global government, one day, hopefully. You don't need sovereign nations to reap benefits of distribution, and some things are really better centralized (I'd agree that centralization may be the big scam of the 20th century - decentralization is the scam of 21st. People somehow forget that decentralized usually means very wasteful.). UE is an example of a "blob" that is not much more focused or…

Is that your best argument for the end of national sovereignty? Economies of scale?

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#67

Post by hugh4 »

dang wrote: post #16
chaghan wrote: post #4

What about the millions of eastern / central europeans that have lower wages and worse quality of life and have been denied to work in german markets when the countries have been allowed to join the EU ? I guess nobody cares. Oh nobody cares either about people that are educated and can't get working visa because EU bureaucracy. Thanks Germany.

The combination of "what about related controversy X" with inflammatory language ("Thanks Germany") is guaranteed to produce a political flamewar. Please don't do that here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10452885 and marked it off-topic.

The posting of this article was guaranteed to produce a political flamewar.

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#68

Post by jmorphy88 »

cabalamat wrote: post #48
jmorphy88 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly "being a dick" to expect his government to provide better for its own citizens than it does for foreigners.

But it's not his government, it's the German government. How Germany chooses to spend its money is a matter for the German people, and not anyone else.

I was referring to the EU, which is supposed to serve the interests of its member states -- a radical idea, it seems.

Re: Arriving in Berlin – A map made by refugees

#69

Post by raverbashing »

nikolak wrote: post #60
raverbashing wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand the sentiment However, for those who want to work in Berlin (or somewhere else) can apply for a German Blue Card (usually you apply for jobs hen the company gets you one), shouldn't be too hard

I'm from a European, but not an EU member country, and I got offered a senior software developer job in Germany. I applied for a 12 month work visa, even signed a statement that I will return when it expires, and it got denied. So yes in theory it's "easy", but in practice it isn't always like that. (To be fair you're talking about Blue Card which I didn't apply for because I've heard it's bit harder to get since it'…

It's easy as in "much easier than an H1B" but sometimes there are issues getting one, yes (might be the company's fault as well).
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