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Can You Get Smarter?

nytimes.com

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Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#81

Post by [deleted] »

curiouslurker wrote: post #67
kator wrote: post #13

My dad went from being an auto mechanic to learning to code when he was 63 and he's 77 now and argues with me about Drupal vs Joomla over dinner. It's only one sample but I'm convinced him switching careers extended his neural plasticity considerably.

Btw, one of the most brilliant engineers/architects I met a Microsoft, now a distinguished engineer at Amazon, started his career as an auto mechanic (he attended trade school for this). He is also the principal architect of IBM's DB2. His name is James RH. See this: (Why Amazon Hired a Car Mechanic to Run Its Cloud) http://www.wired.com/2013/02/james-hamilton-amazon/

[deleted]

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#82

Post by lsc »

nicklaf wrote: post #80
lsc wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a pill that makes you more like what you want to be an awful idea? I'm not making any statement about the effects of the drugs in question; if they don't work or have bad side effects, obviously, that's bad, but my point is that people seem to think that drugs, even when they work and have reasonable side effects are a somehow bad or shameful route to self-improvement, and I don't see why that is. If we're tal…

Sorry, I should be more precise. I don't think the pill itself is an "awful idea". What is a bad idea (IMO) is relying on a pill specifically because you don't want to exercise, which has been shown to work, and has too many interrelated benefits to mention. I think stimulants are fine--Erdős took amphetamines, lots of kids take Adderall, and most mathematicians probably drink tea of coffee.

ah. yeah. From what I read nothing is as effective as exercise. I recently stopped bicycling to work... and am a lot worse for it. Just sayin' if there was a pill that was as effective as exercise, I'd take it.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#83

Post by wiremine »

pen2l wrote: post #71
curiouslurker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Btw, one of the most brilliant engineers/architects I met a Microsoft, now a distinguished engineer at Amazon, started his career as an auto mechanic (he attended trade school for this). He is also the principal architect of IBM's DB2. His name is James RH. See this: (Why Amazon Hired a Car Mechanic to Run Its Cloud) http://www.wired.com/2013/02/james-hamilton-amazon/

Wait, what. Am I correct getting this impression that what's being said is that auto mechanic work is somehow not "brain work"? Because for solving a lot of car problems it takes brains. If you're good at troubleshooting car problems, you will actually probably be good at programming.

It's definitely brain work, but it is concrete, physical 3D space kind of thinking.

Programming, and especially software architecture, tends to be more abstract thinking.

FWIW, the Kolbe test methodology [1] has a good way of quantifying this sort of natural aptitude. 90% of programmers I know who have taken the test [2] are very good at abstract thinking, and not as good at the physical kind.

[1] kolbe.com

[2] Maybe 2 dozen programmers. So, not a huge sample, but enough to see a trend.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#84

Post by racl101 »

kator wrote: post #13

My dad went from being an auto mechanic to learning to code when he was 63 and he's 77 now and argues with me about Drupal vs Joomla over dinner. It's only one sample but I'm convinced him switching careers extended his neural plasticity considerably.

That's a really cool example. I'm sure there aspects of being a mechanic that really helped him learn to code.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#85

Post by racl101 »

weinzierl wrote: post #68
copperx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference then, between a software developer, a mechanic, and a doctor? Only one of them has a white collar job.

Serious question: Is a doctor really considered a blue collar worker?

A glorified blue collar worker no doubt.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#86

Post by tetraodonpuffer »

wiremine wrote: post #83
pen2l wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what. Am I correct getting this impression that what's being said is that auto mechanic work is somehow not "brain work"? Because for solving a lot of car problems it takes brains. If you're good at troubleshooting car problems, you will actually probably be good at programming.

It's definitely brain work, but it is concrete, physical 3D space kind of thinking. Programming, and especially software architecture, tends to be more abstract thinking. FWIW, the Kolbe test methodology [1] has a good way of quantifying this sort of natural aptitude. 90% of programmers I know who have taken the test [2] are very good at abstract thinking, and not as good at the physical kind. [1] kolbe.com [2] Maybe…

why would you think it's concrete thinking only? car mechanics seems basically the same as software debugging, yes, there is a bit of physical thinking when it's time to take parts out and put parts in, but if the car is not turning on you have to figure out in your mind the "algorithm" that is going on from the key turning to the engine working, and debug each step.

There might be a bit of 3d thinking in figuring out how to, say, measure that in location X of the engine there is current Y, but it's not like you can figure out you have to check the current in that spot without having a clear mental picture of what is going on.

Not to mention remembering that car model X tends to develop fault Y which sometimes causes observable behavior Z, which can be identified by checking A, B, C etc. etc. seems very similar to software engineering to me.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#87

Post by WildUtah »

tracker1 wrote: post #73
weinzierl wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Is a doctor really considered a blue collar worker?

I think gp was refering to doctors being the white-collar of the three... and even with engineers they are not blue collar, mot legally at least... Exempt from overtime pay (salaried), no time and a half for OT hourly, etc. IT work is definitely white collar legally speaking.. even if considered at blue-collar by management types.

The responsibilities of a white collar job, the wages and respect of a blue collar job, and the number one target of mass skilled immigration to drive down wages.

That's what you get when our profession is distinctive for the lack of social skills and interest in organizing to protect our own interests. The country is not getting more friendly to people who know how to do things but don't know how to win favor with the government.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#88

Post by mikestew »

agumonkey wrote: post #63
mikestew wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once-upon-a-time-time auto mechanic, long time software dev here. It's not just the owner making a living, when I was active it was a decent middle-class living (25 years ago, could be different now). I'm talking professional, can diagnose your problem without throwing parts at it, owns a torque wrench and knows how to use it, not the vocational school students you find at Jiffy Lube. No one I knew was making BMW pay…

Are there websites to discuss and teach mechanic repair informally like SO ? I mean with a few tutorials I could probably fix a lot of things in cars by imitating the video. One big difference though, initial cost. I can't download a wrench yet, and most auto equipment is costly.

Go where the ex-pros go: YouTube. Seriously, I'm on there for a lot of jobs. Again, it's a lot like software: sure, you know how a for loop works, but how does it work in, say, Ruby? Similarly, I know how to drain a radiator, but what are the subtleties of draining one on a BMW R1200 motorcycle?

Sometimes I just need an explode diagram to see what I need to strip off to get to $PART_TO_REPLACE. Sometimes there are shop manuals online, or a dealer has parts diagrams that will do the job.

As for tools, buy what you need as you need it, not all at once. Start with a good set of metric box end wrenches, a ratchet and sockets, add from there as needed. Craftsman at Sears is a good compromise between quality and the eye-watering price of Snap-On (not that Snap-On isn't worth it if you do it all day).

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#89

Post by 336f5 »

mbritton72 wrote: post #40
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Einstein worked in a patent office.

Kafka was an insurance something-or-other...

Looks like one'd describe him as an insurance adjuster:

> Kafka was rapidly promoted and his duties included processing and investigating compensation claims, writing reports, and handling appeals from businessmen who thought their firms had been placed in too high a risk category, which cost them more in insurance premiums.[41] He would compile and compose the annual report on the insurance institute for the several years he worked there.

And of course, Wallace Stevens was an insurance lawyer.

Re: Can You Get Smarter?

#90

Post by mikestew »

ochoseis wrote: post #56
mikestew wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once-upon-a-time-time auto mechanic, long time software dev here. It's not just the owner making a living, when I was active it was a decent middle-class living (25 years ago, could be different now). I'm talking professional, can diagnose your problem without throwing parts at it, owns a torque wrench and knows how to use it, not the vocational school students you find at Jiffy Lube. No one I knew was making BMW pay…

> It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong. Reminds me of reading "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

Then you'll understand why I've actually worn out paperback copies of ZAMM. ;-) "Gumption traps", oh, I know exactly what Pirsig was talking about.

Seriously, it's a book that really spoke to me, and probably largely because of being both a mechanic and motorcyclist. So it's no coincidence if some of the stuff I write sounds like something out of ZAMM, because I'm probably just (poorly) paraphrasing something I read years ago, flavoring it some real-life experience.

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