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Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

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Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#71

Post by andrewaylett »

flatline wrote: post #17
silveira wrote: post #5

My brother once chocked with a piece of barbecue meat with farofa (a Brazilian mix of toasted cassava flour) in a restaurant. He was barely breathing, and could not swallow anything. We rushed to the hospital and they were able to save him. Nobody new how to perform a Heimlich maneuver, and I don't know if it would have worked. I wonder if this device would have the suction strength to pull the obstruction in that si…

I took a CPR class several years ago before our first kid was born and within a week I couldn't have told you 100% how to perform a Heimlich. You drill it a couple times and are somehow expected to be able to perform it in an emergency, months (or in my case with a one-off class, years) later. I would attempt it if someone was choking with nobody better qualified around, but I always doubt that many people are going…

That's one reason I really appreciate being a first-aider at work -- I get paid to do refreshers every year or two. The repeat classes usually contain at least one bit of information I've not heard before, but the biggest benefit is the opportunity to practise the techniques I've not had to use all year.

I took the full 3-day course for the first time this year, and the extra time for practicals was excellent.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#72

Post by silveira »

flatline wrote: post #17
silveira wrote: post #5

My brother once chocked with a piece of barbecue meat with farofa (a Brazilian mix of toasted cassava flour) in a restaurant. He was barely breathing, and could not swallow anything. We rushed to the hospital and they were able to save him. Nobody new how to perform a Heimlich maneuver, and I don't know if it would have worked. I wonder if this device would have the suction strength to pull the obstruction in that si…

I took a CPR class several years ago before our first kid was born and within a week I couldn't have told you 100% how to perform a Heimlich. You drill it a couple times and are somehow expected to be able to perform it in an emergency, months (or in my case with a one-off class, years) later. I would attempt it if someone was choking with nobody better qualified around, but I always doubt that many people are going…

Years later this incident I took a First AID, CPR and AED class. I have the same feeling, I don't think I would remember how to do everything now.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#73

Post by vacri »

> He researched the subject thoroughly and found that there was absolutely no other solution to choking besides the Heimlich maneuver. So he spent the past five years developing new technology to solve this problem.

Strange, I did my last first aid course about 5 years ago, and remember a few methods other than the Heimlich. The Heimlich has this weird PR where it seems that it's the only method that the US knows about. It's a bad method because it's not very good at applying pressure in the right places, and done by enthusiastic naifs it can break ribs (less of a problem) and do serious damage to internal organs (more of a problem).

Three alternatives to the 'one and only' Heimlich:

1) Start with short, hard, upward slaps on the victim's back, with the victim bent over if possible. This is more helpful in cases of partial choking

2) Get the victim on the ground on their side, and using both hands, push down on the side of their ribcage in short, sharp bursts. This uses the same 'pop a cork' mechanism as the Heimlich, but you get a lot more power and you won't damage internal organs (and are unlikely to break bones).

3) As a last resort, try and blow the obstruction further into the lungs. It will require surgery to remove, but that's better than dying.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#74

Post by vacri »

datashovel wrote: post #51
omarchowdhury wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what happened after that?

He was fine as far as we all knew. He ended up leaving to go back home a few months after, and I wasn't close so we didn't stay in touch. I can't give a long-term prognosis, but I imagine the human body probably has mechanisms to deal with that sort of thing. He didn't feel concerned enough about it to go to the hospital afterwards, and we were just college students so we didn't feel we had any reason to override his…

For future reference, go to hospital. The lungs are a one-way system and can't digest things - any object going in either comes out the same way or sits around. That lump of food will have rotted, and would be a significant infection risk.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#75

Post by alvinktai »

gingerlime wrote: post #62

My wife is Japanese, and she said that in Japan lots of old people choke on mochi (a sticky sweet made from rice). From what she says, when this happens - the best thing to use is a vacuum cleaner. I also remember a scene from Tampopo[0] where this takes place. Sounds pretty scary and odd, but probably not an entire myth[1,2] I wonder how effective this is, and what are the risks to the lungs after whatever's stuck g…

Nice, I've never heard of this "dechoking" method. I'm guessing you need one of these types of vacuums: http://www.tipa.eu/fotocache/bigorig/08850298.jpg and then you put your mouth around it?

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#76

Post by readme »

I saw someone die by choking when I used to work in a restaurant. This device would have been helpful. It also would've been helpful if anyone did anything right in an emergency.

There were 3 hostesses standing next to the phone. I was the bus boy.

After a manager told me to go all the way to the back and get another manager, I told him we should probably call 911 first.

The fire dept was across the street.

When I walked up to the phone, none of the hostesses had called 911, because no one told them to.

I called 911, but it was too late.

The man died.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#77

Post by CamperBob2 »

robbiep wrote: post #70
lazyant wrote: post #16

> the instructor told him frankly that the victim would die. He researched the subject thoroughly and found that there was absolutely no other solution to choking besides the Heimlich maneuver maybe I've seen too many movies, but what about the old knife and ball pen Tracheotomy?

The problem with the surgical cric or any other method is that it needs to be lower than the object lodged, which shouldn't be too difficult most of the time but runs the risk of being a futile procedure. Personally as a doctor I'm surprised they are teaching the heimlich, it's an outdated procedure with limited success, in ANZ first aid you're meant to slap on the back a bunch of times before going for physical remo…

That's interesting -- my understanding is that Heimlich was explicitly intended to supersede the "slap on the back" technique.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#78

Post by swombat »

readme wrote: post #76

I saw someone die by choking when I used to work in a restaurant. This device would have been helpful. It also would've been helpful if anyone did anything right in an emergency. There were 3 hostesses standing next to the phone. I was the bus boy. After a manager told me to go all the way to the back and get another manager, I told him we should probably call 911 first. The fire dept was across the street. When I wa…

That sounds awful. I'm sorry you had to be a party to such an event. Even if there were all these other older and more experienced people who should have acted intelligently, it sounds like you're still feeling guilty that you didn't do better. It's hard to realise that in most situations you do have to trust that in your instincts, instead of being able to think that all these supposedly more senior and responsible people actually have a clue... It shakes your faith in people and your sense of security. I'm sad that you had to go through that.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#79

Post by chrisfosterelli »

nsgi wrote: post #38
mhb wrote: post #34

It's a clever idea, but is the vision for this to have one hanging on the wall in a vast number of public places? It says there are 160,000 choking deaths worldwide annually. Presumably the Heimlich maneuver would have worked on some number of those. What is the marginal number of lives saved and at what cost?

The Heimlich manoeuvre worked on none of them, because they died. It might have been possible to prevent some of those deaths with wider or more effective provision, but that would also have costs.

Just because they died doesn't mean someone:

1) Did the Heimlich manoeuvre

2) Performed it properly

3) Continued proper behaviour after the Heimlich manoeuvre failed

There is a good chance the people who died were alone, that everyone around them panicked and froze up, or that nobody realized the person was in danger (people who choke are actually more likely to leave the room than try to tell someone). People often don't call 911 until it's too late.

I do see the OP's point that potentially education and teaching of what to actually do in these scenarios would be more effective than buying a vast number of these devices. I took a first aid course and I can say that while the majority of people know what the Heimlich manoeuvre is, I don't believe they'd behave properly in a chocking situation.

That said, I think these should definitely be put to trial runs to find out :)

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#80

Post by jameslk »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #77
robbiep wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the surgical cric or any other method is that it needs to be lower than the object lodged, which shouldn't be too difficult most of the time but runs the risk of being a futile procedure. Personally as a doctor I'm surprised they are teaching the heimlich, it's an outdated procedure with limited success, in ANZ first aid you're meant to slap on the back a bunch of times before going for physical remo…

That's interesting -- my understanding is that Heimlich was explicitly intended to supersede the "slap on the back" technique.

You can thank good marketing for that.

According to Roger White MD of the Mayo Clinic and American Heart Association (AHA), "There was never any science here. Heimlich overpowered science all along the way with his slick tactics and intimidation, and everyone, including us at the AHA, caved in."[0]

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts#History

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