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Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

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Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#61

Post by Consultant32452 »

alvinktai wrote: post #57
encoderer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they should have it in the bathroom! I've heard from an EMT friend that most choking deaths happen in restaurant bathrooms. Somebody gets up to excuse themselves to be polite and dies alone beside the dyson hand dryers.

I know if I were choking, I don't know how polite I would be to everyone around me

As a person with a medical condition that causes me to choke more often than a normal person would, I usually excuse myself because rectifying the situation typically involves vomiting.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#62

Post by gingerlime »

My wife is Japanese, and she said that in Japan lots of old people choke on mochi (a sticky sweet made from rice). From what she says, when this happens - the best thing to use is a vacuum cleaner. I also remember a scene from Tampopo[0] where this takes place. Sounds pretty scary and odd, but probably not an entire myth[1,2]

I wonder how effective this is, and what are the risks to the lungs after whatever's stuck gets dislodged.

I guess when you're choking, you'd take that risk if all else fails (if you or someone around you can act fast enough to pull a vacuum cleaner...)

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092048/

[1] http://www.accessj.com/2012/01/choking-on-mochi-grab-vacuum....

[2] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2001/01/07/national/daughte...

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#63

Post by haldujai »

mikeash wrote: post #13

Simple and smart. I like it and wonder if I should buy one. Seems like cheap insurance. I wonder, does it work on people with beards? I know this usually causes trouble with sealing masks like this. Even if it doesn't, it's still a really useful device for all the non-bearded people out there, but I have to wonder.

This looks like the same type of mask used in bag masks for providing ventilation, in which case a beard can significantly compromise the seal. Our anesthesiologists here recommend shaving your beard for higher risk patients undergoing anesthesia in case they need to be bagged. However beards don't render the mask totally ineffective.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#64

Post by mankyd »

dx211 wrote: post #32
gwern wrote: post #25

Some googling ( https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2011&q=dechoker&hl... ) suggests there are no trials on the Dechoker yet. While that makes sense (realistic choking must be hard to induce experimentally, and any sort of experiment in the wild suffers from choking being rare), it does make me wonder how well it works.

It seems like if they don't have enough pressure in their lungs to expel the bite of ham sandwich, you wouldn't necessarily be able to suck it out with this device. On the other hand, I have a hard time blowing up those skinny balloons for balloon animals, but the pump thing they sell with them does it like a champ.

> On the other hand, I have a hard time blowing up those skinny balloons for balloon animals, but the pump thing they sell with them does it like a champ.

I think this is the real issue. Your lungs simply aren't very strong.

Even pro-athletes who we would normally associate with respiratory fitness, like runners and swimmers, have more capacity and efficiency then they do strength.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#65

Post by jxramos »

Corrado wrote: post #56
dx211 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like if they don't have enough pressure in their lungs to expel the bite of ham sandwich, you wouldn't necessarily be able to suck it out with this device. On the other hand, I have a hard time blowing up those skinny balloons for balloon animals, but the pump thing they sell with them does it like a champ.

I doubt that you can completely deflate your lungs by exhaling; even if you try your hardest to exhale as deeply as you can. There would always be some air in the lungs so that the pressure difference generated by this device would almost certainly be enough to pop the blockage out of your trachea.

That's exactly right, something called Residual Volume (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung_volumes#Values)

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#66

Post by deltaecho1338 »

Please note the small text on this page that says: "There is no guarantee this device will remove debris from the airway."

http://www.dechoker.com/pages/dechoker-usage-instructions

It is a 510K-exempt Class I medical device, according to the FDA. So its manufacturer has registered with the FDA but there is no FDA approval of its claim of being able to dislodge objects from a patient's airway. Nor is any data provided to demonstrate that it is at all effective.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#67

Post by deltaecho1338 »

gwern wrote: post #25

Some googling ( https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2011&q=dechoker&hl... ) suggests there are no trials on the Dechoker yet. While that makes sense (realistic choking must be hard to induce experimentally, and any sort of experiment in the wild suffers from choking being rare), it does make me wonder how well it works.

You'd equip half a city's ambulances with the devices, and track whether use of the Dechoker reduced tracheotomy rates.

A further complication is that the Dechoker would probably only work for solid objects, so emergency responders would have to determine the nature of the airway obstruction before deciding whether to use the Dechoker, or some other method (i.e., another suction device to remove semisolid debris like vomit). So you'd additionally have to track what the nature of the obstruction was and exclude cases where the Dechoker was applied inappropriately, or where the Dechoker was not used and it could have been.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#68

Post by mhb »

moogleii wrote: post #54
mhb wrote: post #34

It's a clever idea, but is the vision for this to have one hanging on the wall in a vast number of public places? It says there are 160,000 choking deaths worldwide annually. Presumably the Heimlich maneuver would have worked on some number of those. What is the marginal number of lives saved and at what cost?

Every restaurant in NYC seems to have a defibrillator, so it could be doable.

What's the cost/benefit of those?

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#69

Post by shepbook »

mikeash wrote: post #13

Simple and smart. I like it and wonder if I should buy one. Seems like cheap insurance. I wonder, does it work on people with beards? I know this usually causes trouble with sealing masks like this. Even if it doesn't, it's still a really useful device for all the non-bearded people out there, but I have to wonder.

Based on it's shape, it seems the business end of the tube is where the majority of the pressure difference would be created. I suspect that the mask is more to prevent air rushing into the nose/mouth than providing the seal for the suction. With the curved tube extending into the back of the throat, and at the size it seems, I suspect that the soft palate and back of the throat would provide a sufficient seal, with enough pressure applied to the mask and a sharp enough pull on the plunger.

Also, many sailors on industrial boats that I've seen have beards, so I'd suspect that it was a consideration in it's design and probably why the tube is there, instead of just a mask, like the yellow plunger thing.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#70

Post by robbiep »

lazyant wrote: post #16

> the instructor told him frankly that the victim would die. He researched the subject thoroughly and found that there was absolutely no other solution to choking besides the Heimlich maneuver maybe I've seen too many movies, but what about the old knife and ball pen Tracheotomy?

The problem with the surgical cric or any other method is that it needs to be lower than the object lodged, which shouldn't be too difficult most of the time but runs the risk of being a futile procedure.

Personally as a doctor I'm surprised they are teaching the heimlich, it's an outdated procedure with limited success, in ANZ first aid you're meant to slap on the back a bunch of times before going for physical removal

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