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Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

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Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#41

Post by chazu »

mhb wrote: post #34

It's a clever idea, but is the vision for this to have one hanging on the wall in a vast number of public places? It says there are 160,000 choking deaths worldwide annually. Presumably the Heimlich maneuver would have worked on some number of those. What is the marginal number of lives saved and at what cost?

The device(s) in question are merely syringes with masks and a tube connected. If we assume that the average citizen in the developed world is OK with current levels of spending on public health with respect to emergency medical treatment, I doubt that a device such as this would necessitate concerns about "at what cost" any given number of lives are being saved.

In other words, dude its 150 bucks!

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#42

Post by CaptSpify »

JshWright wrote: post #33
zyxley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really trust any significant number of people to do that without killing the person?

I would assume a ship with a crew of any significant size would have someone on board who is capable of performing a cricothyrotomy.

On top of that: If it's pretty much a guarantee I'll die anyway, I'd rather them take the chance. Heavily dependent on the situation though

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#43

Post by chazu »

dx211 wrote: post #32
gwern wrote: post #25

Some googling ( https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2011&q=dechoker&hl... ) suggests there are no trials on the Dechoker yet. While that makes sense (realistic choking must be hard to induce experimentally, and any sort of experiment in the wild suffers from choking being rare), it does make me wonder how well it works.

It seems like if they don't have enough pressure in their lungs to expel the bite of ham sandwich, you wouldn't necessarily be able to suck it out with this device. On the other hand, I have a hard time blowing up those skinny balloons for balloon animals, but the pump thing they sell with them does it like a champ.

I'm not a doctor, but I imagine that using this device on someone without any air in their lungs might cause some sort of bleeding or abrasion in the lung tissue. Of course, if I'm choking I ccould care less...

...I'm terrified of choking, fwiw.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#44

Post by chm »

lazyant wrote: post #16

> the instructor told him frankly that the victim would die. He researched the subject thoroughly and found that there was absolutely no other solution to choking besides the Heimlich maneuver maybe I've seen too many movies, but what about the old knife and ball pen Tracheotomy?

Not only do you have to know where to puncture, you also have to make sure you puncture below the obstruction.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#45

Post by noomerikal »

I just had a CPR class this week (baby due 11/30) and was thinking along these lines - isn't there another way.

Side note for some of the other comments - there are multiple ways to apply pressure to the thoracic cavity in order to express something lodged in the throat. If the person is large and you cannot wrap your arms around them, have them stand with their back against the wall and you thrust from the front just below the diaphram.

The goal of CPR is to resuscitate an individual who is not breathing. Whether the individual sustains other injuries through the course of being resuscitated does not matter. Better to be alive and injured than dead!

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#46

Post by chazu »

learc83 wrote: post #28
mikeash wrote: post #13

Simple and smart. I like it and wonder if I should buy one. Seems like cheap insurance. I wonder, does it work on people with beards? I know this usually causes trouble with sealing masks like this. Even if it doesn't, it's still a really useful device for all the non-bearded people out there, but I have to wonder.

I have a beard, and that's the first thing I thought of. I would guess that it's designed to be pretty forgiving, i.e., no needing a perfect seal. I'm assuming the company knows the answer to this, I think I'll send them an email.

BRB shaving my face.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#47

Post by sp332 »

darkmighty wrote: post #31
eridius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been rather skeptical about how well that would actually work in practice. But even if it does, presumably the person still needs immediate medical care, as having a hole cut open in their throat is still a pretty serious condition. If you're 100 miles out at sea, you're probably not going to do so well trying to breath through a makeshift tube from a hole in your throat.

I remember hearing a story of it being used a few times during flights. I guess it does work, and having a hole in your throat is not that bad, there are no arteries or much blood flow at all in there. Of course, I would still vastly prefer a dechoker! (assuming it works well)

There's no bloodflow if you do it exactly right - just a half-inch to either side is a different story!

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#48

Post by datashovel »

datashovel wrote: post #39

I'm curious to know the actual numbers (ie. force a human body can exert when attempting to breath in vs opposite pressure caused by this device or heimlich). I performed heimlich on a roommate a long time ago when I was in college, but it turns out the pressure he was breathing in with was apparently more than the force I exerted trying to get him to push the object out. I simply helped dislodge the object, but it e…

Also I imagine in some circumstances (if the object is lodged in pretty tightly) the strength of the esophagus to withstand pressure would probably play a role. I could imagine if it's far enough down the esophagus, if the pressure required to pull it up is greater than the strength of the walls of the esophagus, then all you'll end up doing is collapsing the esophagus above the object that you're trying to dislodge.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#49

Post by mhb »

nsgi wrote: post #38
mhb wrote: post #34

It's a clever idea, but is the vision for this to have one hanging on the wall in a vast number of public places? It says there are 160,000 choking deaths worldwide annually. Presumably the Heimlich maneuver would have worked on some number of those. What is the marginal number of lives saved and at what cost?

The Heimlich manoeuvre worked on none of them, because they died. It might have been possible to prevent some of those deaths with wider or more effective provision, but that would also have costs.

I'm thinking that there is quite a bit of cost saved by posting a sheet of paper explaining the Heimlich maneuver instead of installing one of these devices. Give out free smoke detectors with the saved money.

Re: Dechoker medical device could end deaths by choking

#50

Post by omarchowdhury »

datashovel wrote: post #39

I'm curious to know the actual numbers (ie. force a human body can exert when attempting to breath in vs opposite pressure caused by this device or heimlich). I performed heimlich on a roommate a long time ago when I was in college, but it turns out the pressure he was breathing in with was apparently more than the force I exerted trying to get him to push the object out. I simply helped dislodge the object, but it e…

And what happened after that?
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