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Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

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Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#111

Post by Apocryphon »

LordKano wrote: post #92
MangezBien wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude, that I see frequently on HN, isn't very helpful. I taught myself to write code in a little under three months and immediately got a job as a Jr. Dev. I knew nothing about data structures or algorithms but I could write a Ruby program. Now, three years later, I am taking online classes to learn about those issues. The more advanced I got, the more I needed those "basics." Looking back at myself at 18, t…

I think it's akin to how a couple of days of training could prepare someone to work at one of those oil change places but it won't make him or her into a car mechanic. These bootcamps can teach people the basics of programming and if they have the interest and aptitude, they can grow into mature, experienced developers.

The eternal problem is that academia is meant to create theoretical physicists when industry needs more mechanics.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#112

Post by bduerst »

walshemj wrote: post #107
bduerst wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is semantics - one is a software engineer and the other a software programmer. You don't need to know classical mechanic physics as a construction worker to build a structure, but you do need to know it as the architect designing it. The bigger the structure, the more important.

Not so much the architect the Consulting Engineer ( a proper one with their PE CE status) has to. And in fact the basics of structures is taught to Technicians as well.

Right, but they're not taught the reasoning behind the structures. The difference is knowing how to build a Spandrel braced arch and knowing why you would use it instead of a trussed arch.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#113

Post by euphemize »

whiteboarder wrote: post #67
manish_gill wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A developer and a computer scientist are two different things. No, they are not. A good developer is someone who, by virtue of the fact that he or she has to write software whose theoretical underpinnings are rooted in CS, must be good in CS as well. It's ok if you're not a CS person, but stop generalising and saying no dev has to be. > There are awesome developers who are terrible computer scientists. They can bui…

My definition of a "software engineer" is someone who gets paid 6 figures for writing code, any code. And it just so happens there there are quite of lot of 6 figure jobs that solely involve building crud apps by gluing together frameworks. You can shit it on all you want, and talk about how "us real computer scientists are solving the Hard Problems by building compilers and OSs". But at the end of the day, the perso…

Really? People who write code, any code - but make under 6 figures are not "software engineers"? What's making 6 figures have anything to do?

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#114

Post by koube »

MangezBien wrote: post #45
laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

This attitude, that I see frequently on HN, isn't very helpful. I taught myself to write code in a little under three months and immediately got a job as a Jr. Dev. I knew nothing about data structures or algorithms but I could write a Ruby program. Now, three years later, I am taking online classes to learn about those issues. The more advanced I got, the more I needed those "basics." Looking back at myself at 18, t…

For reference, what year was it when you got a job after three months of self study?

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#115

Post by mushroomfractal »

I've been looking at different boot camps and it's a bit interesting to me that even though afaik bootcamps are unregulated, they all seem to cost ~15k with 12-week courses. Do anyone know it's that the case? I'd expect more diversity in a nascent sector.

Btw, I'm an electrical engineer and I want to move to web development, do you guys have any tips on what would be the best bootcamp?

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#116

Post by gotchange »

I am skeptical too of their claim that graduates will be valuable and employment ready as soon as they finish this program.

Maybe this is true for the best of class but for the rest, I don't think so.

The best that they could achieve is that a company would present those exceptional graduates with an apprenticeship offer under a probationary period, roughly 6 months or longer, but with a fast-track path to full employment based on on-the-job performance, but to promise someone that, to the effect, that once you immerse yourself for 12 weeks in our boot camp and then make it and graduate successfully, your productivity will match that of other professional developers who are more experienced or knowledgeable in the field is overly unrealistic and misleading.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#117

Post by Apocryphon »

roymurdock wrote: post #3

Can anyone in the app development world speak to whether or not there actually is a shortage of Android devs? Or is Google just trying to spark innovation by getting more engineers into the Android ecosystem?

I think they're doing this because while Android apps beat iOS in quantity, there's a widespread conception that it lags in quality. So Google is doing this to try to establish a higher standard of Android developers craftsmanship, to try to counter the "iOS first" mentality. I don't think there's a shortage of Android devs, but of really great devs. And because of lower overall quality of Android apps, and market perceptions of Android apps being more fungible and less worthy of being paid for, it ends up being a cycle where firms go for iOS first.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#118

Post by bradleyjg »

manish_gill wrote: post #84
bko wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent's argument reminds me of a No True Scotsman fallacy. Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." Person B: "But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge." Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." I feel the much of the negativity towards bootcamps is partially due to people feeling threatened by new entrants. Kind of like black cars in London claiming that to be a cab dr…

Would you be willing to extend the same logic to the medical profession? What about law? Or perhaps architecture? Would you let a 12 week bootcamp graduate design your home? Or really, any other type of engineer. After all, the argument about "theory" differing from "real world practice" and becoming "good enough" can be made for those as well. You don't need to know about how germs work in order to treat a cold. You…

>> Can they be? Sure, but as some graduates in this thread themselves admitted, it took them 2-3 years to reach that position anyway.

Meanwhile they were taking home a paycheck instead of paying tuition dollars. Maybe they've got family to support and taking four years out of the workforce wasn't a possibility. Or maybe sitting in a classroom is just not how they learn.

What exactly is the problem with some people learning on the job if they want to and employers want them to? You don't want to work with them find an company that doesn't want to hire them or found one yourself.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#119

Post by dreaminvm »

mushroomfractal wrote: post #115

I've been looking at different boot camps and it's a bit interesting to me that even though afaik bootcamps are unregulated, they all seem to cost ~15k with 12-week courses. Do anyone know it's that the case? I'd expect more diversity in a nascent sector. Btw, I'm an electrical engineer and I want to move to web development, do you guys have any tips on what would be the best bootcamp?

I am self taught but I've interviewed a few bootcampers from SF bootcamps that knew nothing aside from boilerplate Ruby code.

If I were you I'd save the 5 figure fees and go through the python (learnpythonthehardway.org) and Django (learnpythonthehardway.org/book/next.html) tutorials.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#120

Post by blumkvist »

sanderjd wrote: post #101
bko wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Medical Yes. There is plenty of work that can be done by a nurse that doesn't need to be done by a doctor. It seems silly that someone gets sent to school for over a decade to talk to me about whether I can take a drug to bring back the spark in my relationship. > Law Yes. There are plenty of routine legal procedures that should be allowed to be performed by someone that doesn't have to go through the costly proces…

Becoming a nurse or paralegal requires far more certification than software development. It's actually quite amazing how much of an outlier software is in the realm of professional qualification. Accounting is perhaps a more interesting corollary because it doesn't have the built-in awe and long history of respect as the medical and legal professions: perhaps we should have 12-week tax accounting bootcamps! I'm being…

Nobody stops you to do your own book keeping or management accounting/budgeting.
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