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Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

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Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#41

Post by wh-uws »

nlawalker wrote: post #34
wh-uws wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Being a software developer in the modern world... has little to do with computer science." Is a categorical falsehood that has cost me alot of time and money. There is not one top tier technology company software team that you can get on without having a strong grasp of at least the basic fundamentals of CS (namely data structures, algorithms, and some college level math.) You will ALWAYS get passed on if you only f…

What's interesting to me is that every time this argument comes up, the argument of the party stating that fundamental CS skills are not required generally revolves around the work , and the argument of the opposing party generally revolves around the interview . >> not one team... you can get on >> passed on Is the problem that you can't join the team without fundamental skills, or that you can't do the work ?

Very interesting observation.

I would argue you can still do the work without it but it will be at a completely different level if you have a strong CS foundation because you'll understand at a fundamental level how to build software that is performant among other things.

Many software teams have decided by using that as the interview process to have it as a floor for the aptitude of people on their team.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#43

Post by southphillyman »

roymurdock wrote: post #3

Can anyone in the app development world speak to whether or not there actually is a shortage of Android devs? Or is Google just trying to spark innovation by getting more engineers into the Android ecosystem?

Why not just hire experienced java devs?

I completed half of an android MOOC course and for the most part it was just Java + mobile design patterns. The android specific stuff (build tools/IDE, configuration, version partitioning, etc) can be learned on the fly I assume.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#44

Post by ken47 »

wh-uws wrote: post #26
throwaway13337 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a software developer in the modern world (web, mobile) has little to do with computer science. These skills can be taught but aren't in most modern universities. Mostly, there is argument that university is not vocational training. At the same time, most people implicitly feel the need to go to university to get a job. These developer boot camps create a new path. It's a good thing.

"Being a software developer in the modern world... has little to do with computer science." Is a categorical falsehood that has cost me alot of time and money. There is not one top tier technology company software team that you can get on without having a strong grasp of at least the basic fundamentals of CS (namely data structures, algorithms, and some college level math.) You will ALWAYS get passed on if you only f…

"(namely data structures, algorithms, and some college level math)"

If you're smart and perceptive, then you can learn enough of these things, for the average job, by osmosis or by day-to-day exposure over the course of a career.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#45

Post by MangezBien »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

This attitude, that I see frequently on HN, isn't very helpful. I taught myself to write code in a little under three months and immediately got a job as a Jr. Dev. I knew nothing about data structures or algorithms but I could write a Ruby program.

Now, three years later, I am taking online classes to learn about those issues. The more advanced I got, the more I needed those "basics."

Looking back at myself at 18, there is no way I would have made it through a CS course. I had no motivation for school. Now, I am doing really well and learning a ton.

Saying they are a scam ignores that the students are getting a marketable skill. None of the camps say you will be an expert with understandings of how the language works but you will have enough skill to be useful.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#46

Post by stevenmays »

roymurdock wrote: post #3

Can anyone in the app development world speak to whether or not there actually is a shortage of Android devs? Or is Google just trying to spark innovation by getting more engineers into the Android ecosystem?

If there is a shortage of mobile devs have wages correspondingly risen? I'm sure if wages rise, more devs will learn it and fill that gap.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#47

Post by whiteboarder »

eropple wrote: post #33
toomuchtodo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent point. If you want to waste 4-6 years of your life on theory, go to college. Bootcamp it or learn yourself if you want to spend 6-18 months learning and then jump into a junior position to get real experience (and get paid for it). EDIT: See my post further down for clarification on this idea. I shot this comment from the hip a bit too fast.

I don't want to rip on you, because I think you're a pretty sharp dude from your posting here, but if you think theory is a waste, I really question what sorts of Actually Hard Problems you've had to tackle. :/

Who gives a shit?

The tech industry currently doesn't need any more people to work on the Actually Hard Problems.

The tech industry currently pays people 6 figure salaries to build CRUD apps. There is such a huge shortage of tech people, that the industry can't even get the "Easy", low hanging fruit work done.

It doesn't matter how many PHDs work at Tesla designing space cars if the world has a cronic shortage of car mechanics. And right now the car mechanics get 6 figure salaries.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#48

Post by aczerepinski »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

A smart/motivated/curious person can learn an awful lot about ANY subject in ~1000 hours. Are you skeptical about bootcamps, or about mankind's capacity to acquire new skills?

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#49

Post by elliotec »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

It worked really well for me. It's not a scam, and it may be laughable but its reality. The fact is there are a lot of job openings for developers and these guys are taking advantage of it.

A 12 week program is certainly enough to prepare someone for real, practical applications in development, especially if the student has done self study before and after and has ambition.

From what I've seen, often times a CS degree does the exact opposite.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#50

Post by toomuchtodo »

whiteboarder wrote: post #47
eropple wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to rip on you, because I think you're a pretty sharp dude from your posting here, but if you think theory is a waste, I really question what sorts of Actually Hard Problems you've had to tackle. :/

Who gives a shit? The tech industry currently doesn't need any more people to work on the Actually Hard Problems. The tech industry currently pays people 6 figure salaries to build CRUD apps. There is such a huge shortage of tech people, that the industry can't even get the "Easy", low hanging fruit work done. It doesn't matter how many PHDs work at Tesla designing space cars if the world has a cronic shortage of car…

> Who gives a shit?

Could you make your point without that?

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