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Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

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Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#21

Post by santaclaus »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #20
laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

Being a software developer in the modern world (web, mobile) has little to do with computer science. These skills can be taught but aren't in most modern universities. Mostly, there is argument that university is not vocational training. At the same time, most people implicitly feel the need to go to university to get a job. These developer boot camps create a new path. It's a good thing.

Which is funny, as those exact Computer Sciencey type questions are what Google likes to throw at candidates.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#22

Post by sotojuan »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

> But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me.

To be fair it seems like the people that go to the "top" bootcamps are not like this. I mean, App Academy has graduated Googlers, but a lot already had degrees or some industry experience.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#23

Post by srtjstjsj »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

Depends what "job". In this OP, they jobs are front-end internship-level jobs, writing boilerplate Android front-ends to websites. This isn't "inventing a replacement for React" or "distributed systems design" stuff.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#24

Post by toomuchtodo »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #20
laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

Being a software developer in the modern world (web, mobile) has little to do with computer science. These skills can be taught but aren't in most modern universities. Mostly, there is argument that university is not vocational training. At the same time, most people implicitly feel the need to go to university to get a job. These developer boot camps create a new path. It's a good thing.

Excellent point. If you want to waste 4-6 years of your life on theory, go to college. Bootcamp it or learn yourself if you want to spend 6-18 months learning and then jump into a junior position to get real experience (and get paid for it).

EDIT: See my post further down for clarification on this idea. I shot this comment from the hip a bit too fast.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#25

Post by jaegerpicker »

roymurdock wrote: post #3

Can anyone in the app development world speak to whether or not there actually is a shortage of Android devs? Or is Google just trying to spark innovation by getting more engineers into the Android ecosystem?

There is a shortage of mobile developers across the board and a greater Android dev shortage in my experience. A bootcamp is certainly NOT the answer to that. Mobile dev even more then web development requires a level of experience and tech knowledge that is not possible to gain in 12 weeks.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#26

Post by wh-uws »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #20
laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

Being a software developer in the modern world (web, mobile) has little to do with computer science. These skills can be taught but aren't in most modern universities. Mostly, there is argument that university is not vocational training. At the same time, most people implicitly feel the need to go to university to get a job. These developer boot camps create a new path. It's a good thing.

"Being a software developer in the modern world... has little to do with computer science."

Is a categorical falsehood that has cost me alot of time and money.

There is not one top tier technology company software team that you can get on without having a strong grasp of at least the basic fundamentals of CS (namely data structures, algorithms, and some college level math.)

You will ALWAYS get passed on if you only focus on domain specific knowledge (ie. web development or mobile) to the complete detriment of theory.

Why? because because eventually said tech/language/toolchain/development target/ or platform will become obsolete and good companies want to know your skillset won't die with them.

I've written about this before

http://www.quora.com/I-am-quite-bad-at-algorithms-but-good-w...

Anyone reading this who is interested in being a software engineer for the long haul please DO NOT discount the importance of a strong CS foundation as I did early in my career.

Edit: If you downvote please explain. I have strong evidence to back these claims in the form of missed jobs opportunities at multiple name brand tech companies. You can stick your head in the mud if you like but it wont make you anymore correct.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#27

Post by random_rr »

ljk wrote: post #17

Isn't it more important to focus on the concepts like discrete math, data structures/algorithm, OS, etc? Is it really beneficial for there to be a surplus of programmers who only learned how to use libraries?

There are engineers that work on the highest level of machinery - NASA, F1, robotics, etc - and there are mechanics who maintain and service the vast fleet of personal automobiles in the world. The Jiffy Lube mechanics may not be able to map out the physics of combustion and motion, but they can fix your broken suspension arm. An advanced degree is not necessary for all forms of trade.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#28

Post by whiteboarder »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

And yet the Developer Boot Camps work.

Just look at the job statistics for anyone of the top ones, like Hack Reactor, Flatiron School, ect.

They graduate people who get 80-100k salary jobs, within 6 months of graduating.

People go to these bootcamps for the singular goal of getting a high paying job, and these programs are wildly successful at achieving this goal.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#29

Post by whiteboarder »

wh-uws wrote: post #26
throwaway13337 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a software developer in the modern world (web, mobile) has little to do with computer science. These skills can be taught but aren't in most modern universities. Mostly, there is argument that university is not vocational training. At the same time, most people implicitly feel the need to go to university to get a job. These developer boot camps create a new path. It's a good thing.

"Being a software developer in the modern world... has little to do with computer science." Is a categorical falsehood that has cost me alot of time and money. There is not one top tier technology company software team that you can get on without having a strong grasp of at least the basic fundamentals of CS (namely data structures, algorithms, and some college level math.) You will ALWAYS get passed on if you only f…

If what you say is true, then how come the dev bootcamp hiring statistics say otherwise?

Look at any of the statistics. These bootcamps graduate people making 80k-100k. That is a good salary for someone who didn't graduate with a CS degree from a top 5 tech school.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#30

Post by BinaryIdiot »

peter303 wrote: post #13
qntty wrote: post #2

Tuition for the 12-week course in Android development, which was designed by Google's developer training team, is $13,500. The full-time course will be offered in early 2016 at General Assembly's flagship offices in New York and San Francisco and then spread to its 14 locations around the world.

Maybe analyze this as a one-year payback. I've that miny who gone from minimal to medium skills via academies get a salary increase of about this amount. You also can write some of this off on taxes.

> You also can write some of this off on taxes.

You can? I thought it had to be a very specific, accredited school for that.

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