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U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

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Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#141

Post by tankenmate »

downandout wrote: post #124
neurotech1 wrote: post #34

One thing about the RPV/Quadcopter debate that is rarely mentioned is the reason why they don't use ADS-B transponders. The FAA requires ADS-B trasponders to have high accuracy GPS, and that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. It would be logical for the FAA to relax the GPS requirement slightly, so a cheap GPS module is sufficient to alert nearby aircraft of RPV activity over a certain altitude (eg. 200ft AGL…

>that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. Sounds like a market that is ripe for disruption. $2,000 cannot be remotely close to the cost of production. This price is the result of having a small, wealthy customer base that is required by law to purchase it. If someone introduces one with pricing that reflects both the cost of production and a dramatically expanded customer base, that company will make a ton of…

The cost isn't only about "production" per se; the increased cost also comes from meeting regulatory, reliability and testing requirements.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#142

Post by shoegumfoot »

sopooneo wrote: post #56
Malstrond wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The section 336 says that the FAA will not "not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding" if certain criteria are matched. For example that the aicraft is a model aircraft. and c) (2) says that a model aicraft is "flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft". So if you exceed visual line of sight it becomes a normal aircraft, just like every other plane. And they all have to be registere…

That would hold if we assume all things which fly (aside from animals, obviously) are under the jurisdiction of the FAA by default . And then then only certain itemized exceptions (like model aircraft as they define them) are not. However, I'm not certain that's the case.

> However, I'm not certain that's the case.

I am.

> That would hold if we assume all things which fly (aside from animals, obviously) are under the jurisdiction of the FAA by default.

There's plenty of statute and precedent making it blindingly clear that this is the case.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#143

Post by shoegumfoot »

striking wrote: post #47
objclxt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...really? Because both aircraft and road vehicles today have identifiers painted or printed on them. What about driving around with a license plate or flying with a tail number? What's the difference?

It would make sense to expose an identifier, rather than the person's identity. I may have misunderstood the comment.

Would it be correct to think that you would be shocked to learn that the FAA has a publicly-accessible aircraft registration database?

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#144

Post by ctdonath »

mikeash wrote: post #138
ctdonath wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Founding Fathers approved of personal ownership of battleships, hence the "letters of marque" clause in the constitution.

Isn't a letter of marque basically a primitive license? I think it's funny that both of these replies center on refuting my idea that they might be frightened, but ignore the more important idea that what they would or would not think is not important.

License to initiate warfare under authority of Congress, yes. License to own and operate harmlessly one defensively, no.

The philosophy of the Founding Fathers is extensively documented. Not the least of which is their carrying out revolt and secession against a superpower for the purpose of securing personal liberty and minimizing control & harassment by government. In light of that, the notion of them fearing cars and using government to restrict ownership thereof by punishing lack of paperwork is absurd.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#145

Post by mrep »

babuskov wrote: post #121
[deleted] wrote: post #108

[deleted]

It happens in every area. If there weren't malicious programmers, we wouldn't have to spend CPU cycles on anti-viruses and firewalls. If there weren't for SPAM, e-mail communication would be more enjoyable, etc. By definition, ~50% of the population has below average intelligence.

I think you mean median intelligence :)

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#146

Post by svensxds »

neurotech1 wrote: post #34

One thing about the RPV/Quadcopter debate that is rarely mentioned is the reason why they don't use ADS-B transponders. The FAA requires ADS-B trasponders to have high accuracy GPS, and that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. It would be logical for the FAA to relax the GPS requirement slightly, so a cheap GPS module is sufficient to alert nearby aircraft of RPV activity over a certain altitude (eg. 200ft AGL…

Very soon government will just throw everyone in jail, so there will only be full-time slaves without any rights

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#147

Post by blincoln »

swingbridge wrote: post #71
neurotech1 wrote: post #34

One thing about the RPV/Quadcopter debate that is rarely mentioned is the reason why they don't use ADS-B transponders. The FAA requires ADS-B trasponders to have high accuracy GPS, and that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. It would be logical for the FAA to relax the GPS requirement slightly, so a cheap GPS module is sufficient to alert nearby aircraft of RPV activity over a certain altitude (eg. 200ft AGL…

Interesting idea although there are a lot of technical issues that would make what you describe more challenging. A simpler approach is positive enforcement. Force manufacturers to hard code drones to not fly near airports or other restricted areas and not fly above 200 ft. Model aircraft have existed for a long time and there's been a good relationship with the FAA and few incidents. The challenge is that technology…

A "drone region lockout" bypass (using spoofed GPS signals) was showcased by a team at Def Con this year. They showed video of their drone taking off inside restricted airspace in Beijing. In other words, if someone wants to deliberately break the rules, they're going to find a way. I guess it would still prevent accidental airspace violation.

My main concern is that the definition of "restricted airspace" is likely to increase if this becomes a standard. E.g. the National Park Service would probably lobby to have all of their airspace included, even though it's a nuisance to some people in national parks instead of a safety concern.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#148

Post by Spooky23 »

jnbiche wrote: post #111
Spooky23 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have a right to privacy in public spaces. You can be a weirdo and wear a baclava and only travel by foot or use cash to use public transit, but that behavior in itself de-anonymizes you.

Yum, baclava! Or perhaps you're thinking of a "balaclava"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_(clothing)

Haha autocorrect strikes again! Walking around with baclava would make you popular if you shared though!

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#149

Post by resoluteteeth »

Spooky23 wrote: post #35
striking wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then again, what if people start harvesting people's identities from the drones through the identifier? I think it's a neat idea, but it straddles the 4th Amendment line and could potentially expose your identity to people who don't like drones.

You don't have a right to privacy in public spaces. You can be a weirdo and wear a baclava and only travel by foot or use cash to use public transit, but that behavior in itself de-anonymizes you.

> You can be a weirdo and wear a [balaclava]

That's actually illegal in Virginia: http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2006/toc1802000/18.2-42...

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#150

Post by fortyseven »

babuskov wrote: post #121
[deleted] wrote: post #108

[deleted]

It happens in every area. If there weren't malicious programmers, we wouldn't have to spend CPU cycles on anti-viruses and firewalls. If there weren't for SPAM, e-mail communication would be more enjoyable, etc. By definition, ~50% of the population has below average intelligence.

The usual "hospitals would be great if it wasn't for the patients" applies. :-)
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