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U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

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Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#71

Post by swingbridge »

neurotech1 wrote: post #34

One thing about the RPV/Quadcopter debate that is rarely mentioned is the reason why they don't use ADS-B transponders. The FAA requires ADS-B trasponders to have high accuracy GPS, and that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. It would be logical for the FAA to relax the GPS requirement slightly, so a cheap GPS module is sufficient to alert nearby aircraft of RPV activity over a certain altitude (eg. 200ft AGL…

Interesting idea although there are a lot of technical issues that would make what you describe more challenging. A simpler approach is positive enforcement. Force manufacturers to hard code drones to not fly near airports or other restricted areas and not fly above 200 ft.

Model aircraft have existed for a long time and there's been a good relationship with the FAA and few incidents. The challenge is that technology has advanced to the point that these modern "drones" are almost too easy to fly. Any idiot can watch some YouTube videos and then they think they're a pilot. Given that, to the extent possible the aviation regulations should be enforced at the device level to make these things as idiot proof in terms of busting airspace regs as they are idiot proof to fly.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#72

Post by mrbill »

deckerdoes wrote: post #57
saulrh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there'll be a DIY exception like firearms have?

I'm curious, what kind of firearm is classified as DIY and registration is not required?

Anything short of full-auto or under 0.50 bore (more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_II_weapons). Even then, certain categories (SBRs, AOWs) can be legally owned after paperwork and filing for a tax stamp ($5 for AOWs transfers, $200 for SBRs and supressors).

This is why you see AR15 "80% Complete Lowers" being sold. You buy what is basically a chunk of metal, finish the machining (can be done with a special jig and a drill press), and you can have a functional AR15 that nobody but you has any knowledge of.

The "upper receiver" and barrel, trigger parts kit, bolt assembly, and other bits are just pieces parts and pipe, as far as UPS and anyone else is concerned. When I built my AR15 (out of a locally purchased fully complete lower), I bought the upper receiver assembly online and UPS delivered it to my front door.

Plus, not all states require registration of "normal" firearms. In Texas, the only "registration" is the ATF Form 4473 that is filled out at time of purchase, and those are held by the seller, not the government.

http://www.vice.com/video/diy-guns-591

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#74

Post by jongraehl »

Sure, new-tech drones should respond to a targeted ping w/ serial number or similar. Simple challenge/response crypto could avoid cloning/spoofing. Enforcement of registration: no response = police will follow the drone to its owner and ticket (else impound). Physical serial number for legacy drones.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#75

Post by olex »

neurotech1 wrote: post #34

One thing about the RPV/Quadcopter debate that is rarely mentioned is the reason why they don't use ADS-B transponders. The FAA requires ADS-B trasponders to have high accuracy GPS, and that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. It would be logical for the FAA to relax the GPS requirement slightly, so a cheap GPS module is sufficient to alert nearby aircraft of RPV activity over a certain altitude (eg. 200ft AGL…

Just how accurate is this 2000$ GPS supposed to be? Because my 40$ Ublox M8N GNSS modules on several copters produce a solid lock with constant HDOP<1.5 under normal conditions, averaging around ~1.5m horizontal position deviation, and altitude is locked in via barometer down to several cm. To get more position accuracy, you really need DGPS, which AFAIK planes don't normally use either... and do those couple meters really matter?

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#76

Post by serf »

Evolved wrote: post #63
canow wrote: post #62

Drones are army planes that can fly for hours and probably weight hundreds if not thousands of pounds... Quadcopters are toys that can fly for minutes and weight only a few pounds...

"Drone" covers all UAVs/RPVs whether small enough to fit on your palm or large enough to need a full size air strip to launch. All UAVs are drones and all drones are UAVs. Not all drones are quadcopters but all quadcopters are drones. Even in the strictest definition, what we commonly call "R/C Planes/Helicopters" actually qualify as "drones." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle

>...but all quadcopters are drones.

Well, not all of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Bothezat

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9v0ADuoE1cY/VHsBwdH-YGI/AAAAAAAAAh...

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#77

Post by tailgate »

ctdonath wrote: post #60
krasin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes. Make driver education mandatory in public school. This is not a good time investment for children, given that not all of them will drive. Especially, considering that driverless cars are coming soon.

It's a few hours' training to teach a basic skill most of them will use (along with all the other "not all of them will use it" things they do or should learn). Those who don't formally learn will still likely end up behind a wheel anyway, documented or not - and it's those non-documented ones who are precisely the ones we particularly DO want to ensure are trained one way or another.

In what universe is learning to drive a "few" hours? At minimum most courses I know of have 10-20 hours of lecture type instruction.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#78

Post by dronehire »

Evolved wrote: post #64
rcthompson wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An aircraft flying under autopilot with a human pilot present who is monitoring the situation and can respond to ATC instructions and take manual control if necessary is not remotely similar to a UAV from a practical perspective, despite the superficial similarity of both being flown by a computer.

You are correct and I don't think sitting in the pilot's seat but not having your hands on the controls qualifies as "unmanned." Again, UAVs are not computer-flown. They're remotely piloted. They are not completely autonomous (yet.)

> Again, UAVs are not computer-flown. They're remotely piloted. They are not completely autonomous (yet.)

This is incorrect. Most popular consumer-level autopilot systems used by companies like DJI and 3D Robotics have complete autonomous functionality (except sense and avoid capability) which allows the user to input a flight path and then watch the drone take off, fly through the checkpoints and then land, completely autonomously.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#79

Post by swingbridge »

plantain wrote: post #67
neurotech1 wrote: post #34

One thing about the RPV/Quadcopter debate that is rarely mentioned is the reason why they don't use ADS-B transponders. The FAA requires ADS-B trasponders to have high accuracy GPS, and that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. It would be logical for the FAA to relax the GPS requirement slightly, so a cheap GPS module is sufficient to alert nearby aircraft of RPV activity over a certain altitude (eg. 200ft AGL…

There is nothing about aviation GPS's that make them high accuracy. In fact they're mostly inferior to consumer GPS equipment. What drives up the cost is certification of the equipment.

Certification and also a lot more technology behind figuring out when the position data is inaccurate. Aviation GPS units will run forward looking simulations (for example when flying a GPS landing approach) and figure out that satellites are about to be in a suboptimal position and warn the pilot accordingly.

Re: U.S. Will Require Drones to Be Registered

#80

Post by neurotech1 »

plantain wrote: post #67
neurotech1 wrote: post #34

One thing about the RPV/Quadcopter debate that is rarely mentioned is the reason why they don't use ADS-B transponders. The FAA requires ADS-B trasponders to have high accuracy GPS, and that pushes the cost to over $2,000 per device. It would be logical for the FAA to relax the GPS requirement slightly, so a cheap GPS module is sufficient to alert nearby aircraft of RPV activity over a certain altitude (eg. 200ft AGL…

There is nothing about aviation GPS's that make them high accuracy. In fact they're mostly inferior to consumer GPS equipment. What drives up the cost is certification of the equipment.

From a practical perspective that may be true.

Consumer GPS (eg. Phone/Tablet) is typically augmented GPS, whereas certified aviation GPS uses WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) to improve accuracy.

The key difference is that aviation GPS will warn the pilot if there is degraded performance below requirements, whereas consumer GPS doesn't.

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