Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#251

Post by michael2l » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:25 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #242

I really dislike the lack of expertise typical recruiters have with the technical jargon and requirements of our industry. I've had many poor recruitment experiences where the recruiter couldn't accurately explain the role, requirements, or why they thought I was a good enough fit to contact me in the first place. My github simply hits the right keywords and that's good enough for them. This has been made worse by no…

I dislike this expertise as well, but lets get at what you are saying, that a recruiter should have some sort of programming background to know how concepts actually are used versus the sorts of mixed metaphors one comes up with in the absence of that understanding, which are often quite comical.

This just isn't realistic. Most recruiters are doing this job in some sort of entry-level commission-only type role, and if they had any sort of basic IT skills/understanding are likely to have better offers to do something in that arena. Some recruiters do learn a good bit and are more successful over time and make a good living, but most people try it for a bit and don't do well enough to keep at it. Combining the sales ability with technical ability is a bit rare, but for people who have both you can do pretty well both in recruiting and in other lines of work as well.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#252

Post by timrichard » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

roblynch wrote: post #31

Had a recruiter email me recently saying: "JASON knowledge is an advantage..." Yep. I still don't know jason

I recall one phone call where the guy said "how much do you know about Ajax?" (pronounced like the Dutch football team). There was no reason for the guy to know any different, but it amused me at the time....

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#253

Post by rnovak » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:37 PM UTC

ryguytilidie wrote: post #248

rnovak wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are literally millions of recruiters in the world. You think knowing a couple hundred means you know how they all act, or even a majority?

So let me see if I follow. It is completely rational and even considered informational to post some strawmen about 2 or 3 recruiters. HOWEVER, knowing hundreds of recruiters and talking about their actual behavior is not rational. "You think knowing a couple hundred means you know how they all act, or even a majority?" I...what? Are we just coming up with the dumbest, most obtuse questions possible? Again, what shred…

Your statements literally say that. "I know hundreds of recruiters". That's literally what YOU SAID.

That's not dumb, or obtuse.

You also imply that just because none of those people act like that, that the ENTIRE industry must be the same.

It's getting really difficult to not be offended at some of what you're saying. I'm WASPY as they come and your arguments are so privileged it's not even funny.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#254

Post by pinewurst » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

andrelaszlo wrote: post #151

michaelt wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are rent-seekers, pure and simple, and they leech off our industry. I'm no fan of recruiters, but nothing stops you applying to the company directly, and nothing stops the company posting their own job ads.

Actually your CV can be hijacked by a recruiter, effectively keeping you out of a job. Imagine this scenario: You get a call from a recruiter. They seem to have an interesting position/client/network so you send over your CV. A couple of months later you are actively looking for a job, so you make a list of cool startups in your area and send your CV and a customized cover letter. They all answer that they got your C…

No, I've seen this happen where someone's resume was spammed by unscrupulous recruiters and made them effectively persona-non-grata.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#255

Post by celticninja » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

jsprogrammer wrote: post #172

celticninja wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair your friend got fucked over but predominantly because he didn't read the contract. If he was offered £40k and then a contract came and he signed it without checking, his fuck up. If he didnt sign a contract and moved cities on the word of an individual he fucked up. If he didnt attend and interview or discuss these perks prior to signing a contract he fucked up. If he was genuinely misled then he can actua…

?? It sounds like he read the contract/offer and that it wasn't at all like he had previously discussed with the recruiter.

Ah now that is different, I interpreted it as he took the job and then found out after it was a done deal.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#256

Post by bostik » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #28

dates wrote: post #17

This is mostly an angry rant, pretty amusing to me how upset the author actually becomes at times, I think its quite harsh. I did like this idea towards the end of it: "To employers – ask your staff to help find new hires. Offer a bounty – enough to get their attention, say a fortnight’s salary. It’s a lot less than [a recruiter] would cost. And their incentives are all positive: no-one will hire an idiot if they hav…

This is completely common in America. Is the London job market scene just messed up?

Yes.

We ran some back-of-the-envelope numbers last week at the office. Wolfram provided us with a ballpark figure that there are about 70k "IT industry professionals" in London region. Of this, 10-15% (so maybe 12k) are the good ones, and absolutely everybody is fighting for them.

There are more than 10k tech industry companies in London alone. [0]

Competition for talent is fierce, to say the least - and every single startup I know of is hiring. Us included.

0: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-06/10/tech-city-uk-... (24% of 47k)

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#257

Post by raygull » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

I've been on the job market the last few weeks, going mostly through New York recruiters. The quality of the experience has varied wildly, with some obviously doing the minimum work necessary, and just as obviously not knowing or caring about the "acronyms" on my resume. Others seem pretty professional, have apparently done research, and the clients they recruit for would indicate they have a reputation to maintain.

In the end, the gross factor doesn't really matter to me -- the recruiters find me on LinkedIn, and I just say "sure, I'll talk to XYZ Co." unless it's obviously sleazy or a bad fit.

It's a bit grueling to cast such a wide net, and it's obviously a hustle, but for me it's mostly just a way to get an initial phone introduction/screen with companies, and from there it's apparent whether it's worth the trouble to move to the next step.

I might not go this route again, though, having seen how little most recruiters add to the process.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#258

Post by rnovak » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

ryguytilidie wrote: post #70

mbroshi wrote: post #34

I will admit I did not make it through this entire article, but it really did not ring true to me at all--just sounded like an unsupported, hostile, angry rant. >> “Fucked if we care” think the recruiters, “now grovel and be exploited”. ... >> You’re meat to them, a resource to be packaged and sold and exploited. Who's being exploited here? I think he's implying the programmers, but as someone who left academia for i…

Honestly it seems like the author has some serious problems. I know hundreds of recruiters having been at Google and Facebook and not a single one of them thinks like this at all. To say "now grovel and be exploited" about a process where the person will almost certainly end up with a fantastic offer for an engineering job in a comfortable office with great pay and great working conditions may actually be the least s…

> I know hundreds of recruiters having been at Google and Facebook and not a single one of them thinks like this at all.

Congrats. That must be how the entire industry works then

> a process where the person will almost certainly end up with a fantastic offer for an engineering job in a comfortable office with great pay and great working conditions

Yeah, bull-shit, if you think every engineering job is in a comfy office with great pay and great working conditions, you are seriously delusional. I've worked at places where this wasn't the case.

If everything was all sunshine and rainbows all the time, companies wouldn't have bad reputations, or have a hard time hiring new people. But plenty do have a bad reputation, and plenty do scare off new recruits. That's kind of the entire point of sites like GlassDoor.

> The author is a bad writer, is unable to support their points and shows the self awareness of a 5 year old. Why did this post get a single upvote? Is the whole "lets work ourselves in a furor over things we made up about strangers" not getting old to you people...?

First off, it's his opinion, and his blog, totally his right to have unsupported claims. But considering how many comments actually support his claims, it's my belief you are severely disillusioned as to the true state of your industry.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#259

Post by s73v3r » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #119

ascorbic wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the UK? If so, I'm seriously surprised this doesn't ring true. To me it exactly matches my experience both as a contractor and as an employer. As to who is being exploited here, it's the whole IT industry. They are rent-seekers, pure and simple, and they leech off our industry. They may not be sending children down mines, but that doesn't diminish the fact they are terrible companies and terrible people.

They are rent-seekers, pure and simple, and they leech off our industry. I'm no fan of recruiters, but nothing stops you applying to the company directly, and nothing stops the company posting their own job ads.

None of that excuses their behavior.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#260

Post by finance-geek » Fri, Oct 16, 2015, 6:04 PM UTC

jsprogrammer wrote: post #166

andrelaszlo wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually your CV can be hijacked by a recruiter, effectively keeping you out of a job. Imagine this scenario: You get a call from a recruiter. They seem to have an interesting position/client/network so you send over your CV. A couple of months later you are actively looking for a job, so you make a list of cool startups in your area and send your CV and a customized cover letter. They all answer that they got your C…

Sounds like a good lawsuit against the recruiter.

Try proving it...the evidence is stuck in some corporate recruiter system.