Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

mocko.org.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 335 posts

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#241

Post by gambiting »

logfromblammo wrote: post #222
gambiting wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, I'm a C++ games programmer and make $30k/year. North East of England + games industry.

I certainly hope you meant to type £30k/year (~$45k/year). If you're only getting $30k (~£20k/year) as a software programmer of any kind, anywhere in the world, you should seriously consider finding a new employer, even if it requires emigrating. And remote jobs still exist. Canada has the 3rd largest video games industry in the world--after the US and Japan--and its growth has strained the available talent pool. So…

£20k/year is exactly what I'm on. My problem at the moment is that I've been working just a bit more than 2 years now, and I absolutely love what I'm doing. I'm part of the engine team on a game that will be one of the biggest releases of 2016, and learning a tonne every day. I got very flexible hours, private health insurance and 30 days of paid vacation days a year. It's just the pay that's abysmal. I've got two computer science degrees and everyone I know in IT makes almost twice as much as I do. But at the same time, everyone I know works for a bank or a financial institution of some kind and they hate their jobs, their bosses, and everything that I on the other hand really like. So yeah, I could quit tomorrow and probably make 2x as much straight away. Do I want to? I'm not sure, and that's my problem at the moment.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#242

Post by agentultra »

I really dislike the lack of expertise typical recruiters have with the technical jargon and requirements of our industry. I've had many poor recruitment experiences where the recruiter couldn't accurately explain the role, requirements, or why they thought I was a good enough fit to contact me in the first place. My github simply hits the right keywords and that's good enough for them.

This has been made worse by not being able to explain the interview process. I specifically asked, many times to various recruiters, what I would be quizzed on or what I should prepare myself for. Few could tell me anything beyond, "some technical questions about algorithms and data structures." Inadequate. The interviewer proper would ask random questions about memory architecture, optimizing the brute-force KNN algorithm, or simply how to reverse a string. Meanwhile I was studying binomial coefficients, heaps, tries, and the standard sorting algorithms. I have github projects that implement lattices for a logically monotonic distributed programming language. For someone such as myself this is unacceptable and leads to some dead-end interviews that are a complete waste of time.

I blame the way we "funnel" the "dregs" of candidates and have little to offer in terms of solutions. I agree with the author that companies seem reluctant to do actual head-hunting. I always assumed that if you contacted me for a job there would be a reason: you like some of the projects I host on my github or have seen my contributions to various open source projects -- that you already have an idea of my skillset and abilities and want to get to know me. Recruiters are more inclined to match keywords and send me through the process... they're not incentivized to get to know me at all. All I can suggest is to not use a recruiter or at least choose one carefully: choose one that knows your industry well and can tell a min-heap from a max-heap.

edit: fixed wording implying a specific github project was some sort of library or system when it implements a single programming language, not languages.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#243

Post by michael2l »

mbroshi wrote: post #34

I will admit I did not make it through this entire article, but it really did not ring true to me at all--just sounded like an unsupported, hostile, angry rant. >> “Fucked if we care” think the recruiters, “now grovel and be exploited”. ... >> You’re meat to them, a resource to be packaged and sold and exploited. Who's being exploited here? I think he's implying the programmers, but as someone who left academia for i…

Agreed, at first I thought they were trying to make a point, then it seems to lapse into some sort of cartoonish straw man just-for-entertainment depiction, but then it veers back to a serious conclusion along the lines "and this is why these companies shouldn't exist. The End". It's a bit confusing.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#244

Post by teh_klev »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #148
praptak wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a comment as irate, mean-spirited, and unsubstantiated as this blog post appeared in HN, it would get down-voted into oblivion. Yet this article instead of getting flagged into oblivion got upvoted to #1 as of now. Could that be that HN readers' experience with recruiters mirrors the author's experience?

I think the complaint is that the author could have instead made this argument in a rational, not irate, not mean spirited and substantiated way. What would have been so bad about that?

I think you've completely missed the humour in this post. It describes in a funny, sarcastic and sardonic article just about every experience I and my dev/IT pals have had with IT recruitment agencies.

It's not about in-house recruiters like you have at FB/Google, it's about the scumbags that hold potential employees to ransom and act as self appointed gatekeepers to jobs that might or might not exist. As an experiment why not hit up jobserve and try applying for some of these agency advertised jobs (under a fake persona), I don't think you've ever experienced the humiliation and frustration of dealing with these wankers.

It's Friday, go have a beer, relax and rediscover your sense of humour.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#245

Post by capisce »

zyxley wrote: post #234
dayjah wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK in ~2000, the last time I was looking for a job without a reliable network, I had an awful experience due to recruiters. I'd synched up with a recruiter, they scheduled me for a job interview at a swanky gentlemans club (not a strip bar, literally a club for men), in London. I don my old school uniform, for aged 18 I had not yet bought a suit, and printed some resumes at my Mums office and headed over to St…

> she believed I'd been subjected to ageism I would suspect more "we don't want to hire someone who thinks it's appropriate to show up in a literal school uniform to a professional interview" more than ageism, per se.

If his skills were that good they should be able to afford to sponsor him with a new suit.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#246

Post by ryguytilidie »

fredkbloggs wrote: post #167
ryguytilidie wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the complaint is that the author could have instead made this argument in a rational, not irate, not mean spirited and substantiated way. What would have been so bad about that?

It wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable to read, for one.

Would have probably been, say, actually correct though...

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#247

Post by ryguytilidie »

fapjacks wrote: post #201
ryguytilidie wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You do realize that there is an entire IT Industry outside of Facebook and Google?" Was there a single fiber in your being that believed I did not...? I cannot imagine a human brain believing this is a useful post for even a single second. Yet, here you are defending it... "You are using your experience at two of of the best technology companies in the world to trash the author's criticism of the recruiting in the "…

You know what's funny? You are essentially confirming everything the OP has said.

Do you have anything you want to say beyond this or are you comfortable leaving this as a completely desperate falling on your face attempt at insulting a complete stranger?

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#248

Post by ryguytilidie »

rnovak wrote: post #239
ryguytilidie wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You do realize that there is an entire IT Industry outside of Facebook and Google?" Was there a single fiber in your being that believed I did not...? I cannot imagine a human brain believing this is a useful post for even a single second. Yet, here you are defending it... "You are using your experience at two of of the best technology companies in the world to trash the author's criticism of the recruiting in the "…

there are literally millions of recruiters in the world. You think knowing a couple hundred means you know how they all act, or even a majority?

So let me see if I follow. It is completely rational and even considered informational to post some strawmen about 2 or 3 recruiters.

HOWEVER, knowing hundreds of recruiters and talking about their actual behavior is not rational.

"You think knowing a couple hundred means you know how they all act, or even a majority?"

I...what? Are we just coming up with the dumbest, most obtuse questions possible? Again, what shred of your being believes I think this in any way whatsoever?

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#249

Post by kevinr »

Given how common the experiences OP describes are among tech people of my acquaintance in the US, I have a hard time believing that anyone here saying "I know hundreds of recruiters and none of them think like this" isn't a recruiter themself.

The thing I hate most is having a recruiter get in the middle of my salary negotiations and try to talk me down.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#250

Post by ryguytilidie »

teh_klev wrote: post #244
ryguytilidie wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the complaint is that the author could have instead made this argument in a rational, not irate, not mean spirited and substantiated way. What would have been so bad about that?

I think you've completely missed the humour in this post. It describes in a funny, sarcastic and sardonic article just about every experience I and my dev/IT pals have had with IT recruitment agencies. It's not about in-house recruiters like you have at FB/Google, it's about the scumbags that hold potential employees to ransom and act as self appointed gatekeepers to jobs that might or might not exist. As an experime…

"It's Friday, go have a beer, relax and rediscover your sense of humour."

Oh good, the "you didn't think this was funny therefore your sense of humor sucks" logic.

I guess its much more "fun and interesting" to work yourself into a rage over things you made up versus just not thinking those things are funny...?

Post reply on HN