> a T-shirt from program-sharing service Github
'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
11–20 of 22 posts
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's probably exactly what it was - an awkward attempt at flattery. An expression of interest, in an attempt to see if the interest might be mutual. After all, there's no logical reason attractive women can't be engineers. Are women really so brittle they have to take offense at something like that? Do they really think they're somehow Striking a Blow Against The Patriarchy by humiliating some poor guy for not navi…
"...not navigating the PC minefield" I see variations on this phrase all over the place, and I don't understand it. It really isn't that hard to avoid saying offensive and distasteful things to women (or anyone else, actually). It's almost always obvious that some statements are pretty offensive or at the very least make people uncomfortable, and it only takes the smallest modicum of common sense and tact to avoid sa…
I've solved the problem the easy way. I absolutely under no circumstance speak to a woman outside of whatever minimal dialogue needs to be done for work. Not a word more. You can not and do not control what people take offense over and what one person takes as a compliment another person will take as an insult.
If I hold the door open for a woman - I'm a sexist pig in her eyes (remember, chivarly is benevolent sexism). If I slam the door in their face by not holding the door open - I'm a sexist pig in her eyes (by being a misogynist pig who "made sure the door slammed in her face", regardless of my intent). There's no winning move because it comes down to the individuals' perspective. If they want to see sexism in my action (holding the door open vs letting it slam in their face) they will see it there and there is nothing I can do to control that.
Should I stop entering doors with woman nearby in case I fail to read their minds and know if I should hold the door open or let it slam in their face?
And no - "holding the door open for everyone" is not the answer. That's what I was already doing before I got bitched at for holding the door. Thanks to that individual - the door now slams in everyone's face.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
"...not navigating the PC minefield" I see variations on this phrase all over the place, and I don't understand it. It really isn't that hard to avoid saying offensive and distasteful things to women (or anyone else, actually). It's almost always obvious that some statements are pretty offensive or at the very least make people uncomfortable, and it only takes the smallest modicum of common sense and tact to avoid sa…
I've solved the problem the easy way. I absolutely under no circumstance speak to a woman outside of whatever minimal dialogue needs to be done for work. Not a word more. You can not and do not control what people take offense over and what one person takes as a compliment another person will take as an insult. If I hold the door open for a woman - I'm a sexist pig in her eyes (remember, chivarly is benevolent sexism…
I hold the door open for everybody, and I've never been accused of sexism. I usually just get smiles from everyone. If a woman were to call me a sexist for holding the door open for her, I'd shrug it off. I'm not so fragile that I avoid speaking to anyone of the opposite gender just because I'm too thin-skinned to deal with the hypothetical situation where someone, somewhere, might think me a sexist.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've solved the problem the easy way. I absolutely under no circumstance speak to a woman outside of whatever minimal dialogue needs to be done for work. Not a word more. You can not and do not control what people take offense over and what one person takes as a compliment another person will take as an insult. If I hold the door open for a woman - I'm a sexist pig in her eyes (remember, chivarly is benevolent sexism…
I hold the door open for everybody, and I've never been accused of sexism. I usually just get smiles from everyone. If a woman were to call me a sexist for holding the door open for her, I'd shrug it off. I'm not so fragile that I avoid speaking to anyone of the opposite gender just because I'm too thin-skinned to deal with the hypothetical situation where someone, somewhere, might think me a sexist.
Your first problem is assuming it was a hypothetical situation. Your second problem is projecting that because it hasn't happened to you it hasn't happened ever or that it is normal behavior. Then finally, you decide to tell me to grow thicker skin.
You argued against all of the above on the other side of the coin. But the moment its an issue that doesn't affect you, you're quick to resort to the arguments you're advocating against?
That "PC Minefield" is avoiding that "someone, somewhere will think I'm a sexist". Which is the problem you admit to existing but don't care about. You'll care when you're the one being seen as a sexist with a Twitter hate-mob at your employers' heel demanding you be fired for an offhand comment or action that wasn't even sexist unless twisted and taken out of context.
It's not about "growing thicker skin" it's about avoiding HR. If I don't speak to them or deal with them, there can be no case for harassment. I consider it job security.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#15> a T-shirt from program-sharing service Github I love media trying to explain Github.
That's a fully adequate description of Github to a lay audience.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
"...not navigating the PC minefield" I see variations on this phrase all over the place, and I don't understand it. It really isn't that hard to avoid saying offensive and distasteful things to women (or anyone else, actually). It's almost always obvious that some statements are pretty offensive or at the very least make people uncomfortable, and it only takes the smallest modicum of common sense and tact to avoid sa…
I've solved the problem the easy way. I absolutely under no circumstance speak to a woman outside of whatever minimal dialogue needs to be done for work. Not a word more. You can not and do not control what people take offense over and what one person takes as a compliment another person will take as an insult. If I hold the door open for a woman - I'm a sexist pig in her eyes (remember, chivarly is benevolent sexism…
I hear this from a lot of guys.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#17> a T-shirt from program-sharing service Github I love media trying to explain Github.
That's a fully adequate description of Github to a lay audience.
Really? I would prefer 'code-sharing service' even if the point is to emphasise the sharing over the version control - makes it clear that we're talking about the program code, not about distributing binaries.
The lay audience understands the "code"/"program" distinction; to me, saying "program-sharing service" suggests somewhere the layman can download a program from (e.g. cnet) - Github sort of offers this now with releases, but that's certainly not an intended or good mechanism to use for the lay downloader.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#18Why do people think this is a compliment?! "You're way too hot to be an engineer," said a man in the lift of her block of flats when she wore a T-shirt from program-sharing service Github. An awkward attempt at flattery, perhaps? "It definitely was not a compliment," she countered. "I was dumbfounded. What do you say to something like that?
That's probably exactly what it was - an awkward attempt at flattery. An expression of interest, in an attempt to see if the interest might be mutual. After all, there's no logical reason attractive women can't be engineers. Are women really so brittle they have to take offense at something like that? Do they really think they're somehow Striking a Blow Against The Patriarchy by humiliating some poor guy for not navi…
> After all, there's no logical reason attractive women can't be engineers.
The absence of a logical reason does not mean that there is not a popular perception of an inverse correlation between physical attractiveness and intelligence (and this isn't entirely restricted to one sex.)
I mean, unless we know the person in the lift was an idealized Vulcan, the absence of a logical reason to believe something that is implied to be the basis of a statement they made -- especially something where there is ample evidence of a common perception in the broader culture -- is not a reason to dismiss the possibility that they might have actually believed it and had that belief motivate the statement.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a fully adequate description of Github to a lay audience.
Really? I would prefer 'code-sharing service' even if the point is to emphasise the sharing over the version control - makes it clear that we're talking about the program code, not about distributing binaries. The lay audience understands the "code"/"program" distinction; to me, saying "program-sharing service" suggests somewhere the layman can download a program from (e.g. cnet) - Github sort of offers this now with…
> The lay audience understands the "code"/"program" distinction
In my experience, professional business people with a day to day involvement as business SMEs on IT projects are quite likely not to really make the distinction you insist the "lay audience" understands, and I doubt very much that the general lay audience, with even less awareness of computing, does.
Re: 'Too hot to be an engineer' – women mark Ada Lovelace Day
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hold the door open for everybody, and I've never been accused of sexism. I usually just get smiles from everyone. If a woman were to call me a sexist for holding the door open for her, I'd shrug it off. I'm not so fragile that I avoid speaking to anyone of the opposite gender just because I'm too thin-skinned to deal with the hypothetical situation where someone, somewhere, might think me a sexist.
Your first problem is assuming it was a hypothetical situation. Your second problem is projecting that because it hasn't happened to you it hasn't happened ever or that it is normal behavior . Then finally, you decide to tell me to grow thicker skin. You argued against all of the above on the other side of the coin. But the moment its an issue that doesn't affect you, you're quick to resort to the arguments you're ad…
I understand your point of view. From a pure job security point of view, withdrawing from women unless necessary is simply being sensible and and little more than an intelligent act of minimizing risk.
However when job security is taken out of equation (for whatever reason) and this situation is seen in a new light, it becomes evident that this whole thing is problematic for men as a whole. It means that the bully-boys and feisty-femmes are allowed to win via men giving up on standing up for themselves, ensuring actual equity (such as meritocracy) and defending against non-emphathetic SJWs.