France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches • Hacker News Board

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#21

Post by aarongough » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:14 PM UTC

alain wrote: post #18

Also in France we have a tax on CD-R, DVD-R, hard drives, mp3 players which is given to the music companies to compensate their losses from pirating (you pay that tax whether you pirate or not. And still haven't the right to pirate after paying it). The ISP also give 1% of their income to those companies. So yes I think taxing the search engines is the logical next step.

Wow. I remember reading something about that a while ago but I didn't realize it was that bad...

The next logical step is that the government forces you to listen to 4 hours of music a day, and pay for it, so that flagging creative industries are supported...

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#22

Post by wendroid » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:15 PM UTC

This is a very interesting subject. Countries in the EU have competed to provide a better business environment to foreign companies. Eire has gone for the 10% corporation tax break. Other EU countries are threatening the companies with sanction. Witness the recent story concerning Google's UK tax bill:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6122329.ece

Google avoids £100m UK tax "The website hailed as a ‘paragon’ is accused of adding to the public’s burden."

Google's advertising first, then Facebook's (er, pardon - Livre de Visage's), then Reddit's (LuLui's) self service ads.

To then dish it out to non-profitable ventures is astonishing, it's like the levy I had to pay on C60 tapes to save my programs, or the levy in some countries on blank CDs and DVDs that goes into the publishing pot.

Then again, I get money from the Lottery Fund and I've never bought a ticket so I should shut up :)

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#23

Post by aarongough » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:16 PM UTC

joubert wrote: post #12

fleitz wrote: post #3

This will lead the way so they can start taxing BMW and Mercedes to revive buggy whip manufacturing. Truly visionary.

Did you read the article? What you're saying is analogous to saying our govt't taxing of telephone calls will lead to us reverting back sending smoke signals from Manhattan to DC, or using carrier pigeons.

Methinks some sarcasm was embedded in the tone of the original comment here...

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#24

Post by joubert » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:19 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #17

joubert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax is to be levied irrespective of the (major) search engine used.

He was talking about the "creative industries hurt by the digital revolution" being the ones propped up by this, not the poor search engines.

But isn't the dying industry paying taxes on their revenues while the poor search engines are not paying taxes on their advertising revenues?

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#25

Post by joubert » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:21 PM UTC

aarongough wrote: post #16

joubert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax is to be levied irrespective of the (major) search engine used.

But the money is still being used to prop up a market that cannot support itself. If it was a vital service (like maybe a utility service) then I could understand. But we are talking about the music industry !

But why should search engines be able to escape paying taxes on their advertising revenues, while the music industry must pay taxes on their revenues?

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#26

Post by joubert » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:23 PM UTC

aarongough wrote: post #23

joubert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? What you're saying is analogous to saying our govt't taxing of telephone calls will lead to us reverting back sending smoke signals from Manhattan to DC, or using carrier pigeons.

Methinks some sarcasm was embedded in the tone of the original comment here...

But I think his sarcasm is an extension of the snide tone in the article, while missing the major point (which the journalist actually made in the introduction before diving into the culture-maintainance mumbo jumbo) - i.e. one set of companies are paying taxes on their revenue, while another industry isn't.

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#27

Post by joubert » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:26 PM UTC

karzeem wrote: post #2

The core problem with this scheme is one that's endemic to this sort of legislation. It's a basic assumption that economic interactions are all ultimately zero-sum, which is simply untrue. The idea that Google (or anyone else) must necessarily derive its success from somehow, somewhere screwing people denies the fact that the healthiest economies are packed with non-zero-sum interactions.

Taxation is also a tool to shape behavior.

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#28

Post by wendroid » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:26 PM UTC

joubert wrote: post #14

Aren't they just simply proposing to tax online advertising revenue? What's the big deal?

An additional and arbitrary tax. Google was given a tax break to locate in Eire and pays tax there, not France, so France want to tax them too..

Presumably it is expenditure of French companies being paid to Google Eire. But presumably the goods and services thus provided get taxed if they cross the border into France or if they originate in France then the French companies pay their usual tax on profits.

The justification for this is flimsy imho and is just a cash grab from a successful company. The European Common Market is being abused as far as I'm concerned.

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#29

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:28 PM UTC

bokchoi wrote: post #8

The president is said to have been made keenly aware of the problems illegal downloads pose musicians by his supermodel-turned-singer wife, Carla Bruni-Sarkozy. This may explain why the French first lady's producer, Patrick Zelnik, was tasked with leading the commission, which came up with the proposals. Wow, no conflict of interest there.

[deleted]

Re: France plans 'Google tax' on Internet searches

#30

Post by fleitz » Thu, Jan 07, 2010, 11:32 PM UTC

joubert wrote: post #15

fleitz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the taxes on phone calls are to pay for the Spanish-American War and not to subsidize the smoke signal industry. If the taxes on phone calls were put into place and the revenues given to the smoke signal industry, then YES I emphatically say that the objective is to lead us back to smoke signals.

Who is the smoke signal industry in the French online advertising tax case?

I believe it is supposed to be content "producers" but this seems to be conflated with content distributors.

From the article: "This may explain why the French first lady's producer, Patrick Zelnik, was tasked with leading the commission, which came up with the proposals. One of these suggests taxing internet service providers to raise tens of millions of pounds for developing the online music business and other creative sectors. The funds would go towards financing schemes such as a government-subsidised digital subscription for 15 to 24-year-olds to download music cheaply to wean them off illegal piracy."