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Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

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Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#61

Post by minority-one »

norea-armozel wrote: post #58
minority-one wrote: post #57

Who started it? Who is the group X that started the routine of saying "we are group X and we are special and isolated from the rest of human kind because of our unique suffering and/or significance"? I'll give you a chance to answer.

No group literally starts that way, but their behaviors exhibit as such and oftener there is a reason why terms like Oppression Olympics exist in the social media lexicon. It's not out of humor but that there's a core truth to it. For example, there's a segment of gender critical feminists that believe that transgender activists are uniformly assaulting them on all fronts when in reality transgender activists have be…

Let's put together a bunch of what you said, because you are indeed so close to guessing, and I don't doubt you can, as a fellow anarchist.

Behavior patterns of Group X (that is then passed on to other groups):

- being a special and isolated group from the rest of human kind

- having suffered uniquely

- having unique significance

- pulling the special-group card all the time (say, to stifle criticism)

- believing other groups are assaulting them on all fronts (say, like a paranoia towards an outgroup)

- attempting grand standing on their being the most oppressed by society (say, by discussing on a TV show whether their suffering was the most awful of all)

- never admitting they are wrong on something (say, in History, where if you disagree with their version, it can only be because you might hate them)

I gave you many hints but as you can tell, the hints come from your posts. You are so spot on. But now you must guess, who is Group X who is influencing other groups to adopt this same behavior?

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#62

Post by dragonwriter »

minority-one wrote: post #57

Who started it? Who is the group X that started the routine of saying "we are group X and we are special and isolated from the rest of human kind because of our unique suffering and/or significance"? I'll give you a chance to answer.

> Who is the group X that started the routine of saying "we are group X and we are special and isolated from the rest of human kind because of our unique suffering and/or significance"?

No one knows -- that pattern is evidenced as far back as recorded history goes pretty much everywhere in the world; its definitely older than writing, and quite possibly as old as the ability to communicate sophisticated enough concepts to express it.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#63

Post by norea-armozel »

minority-one wrote: post #61
norea-armozel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No group literally starts that way, but their behaviors exhibit as such and oftener there is a reason why terms like Oppression Olympics exist in the social media lexicon. It's not out of humor but that there's a core truth to it. For example, there's a segment of gender critical feminists that believe that transgender activists are uniformly assaulting them on all fronts when in reality transgender activists have be…

Let's put together a bunch of what you said, because you are indeed so close to guessing, and I don't doubt you can, as a fellow anarchist. Behavior patterns of Group X (that is then passed on to other groups): - being a special and isolated group from the rest of human kind - having suffered uniquely - having unique significance - pulling the special-group card all the time (say, to stifle criticism) - believing oth…

You seem to be playing the role of an obscurer. I'm going to suggest that if you want people to actually engage you that you engage them. Playing this sort of pseudo-socratic inquiry isn't going to get your point across. If you can't make it in less than a paragraph then don't attempt to make the point.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#64

Post by norea-armozel »

dragonwriter wrote: post #62
minority-one wrote: post #57

Who started it? Who is the group X that started the routine of saying "we are group X and we are special and isolated from the rest of human kind because of our unique suffering and/or significance"? I'll give you a chance to answer.

> Who is the group X that started the routine of saying "we are group X and we are special and isolated from the rest of human kind because of our unique suffering and/or significance"? No one knows -- that pattern is evidenced as far back as recorded history goes pretty much everywhere in the world; its definitely older than writing, and quite possibly as old as the ability to communicate sophisticated enough concep…

I'm not sure the commenter is engaging the question in good faith. I'm going to suggest disengaging with them until they demonstrate their thesis. It sucks to do that, but this has that troll feel to me.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#65

Post by norea-armozel »

eevilspock wrote: post #59
norea-armozel wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree. It's been my experience at least among certain circles of atheism (Graveyard of the Gods forums) and even social activism (Twitter has a bit of this nonsense going on) where X group is special and isolated from the rest of human kind terms of suffering and/or significance. Frankly, I think it's a lack of empathy that drives this sort of thinking. It's easy to symbolically scream and cluck your pearl…

I agree with both of you but let's not lump the anger of the gamer gaters with the anger of the truly opprossed, exploited and abused.

I think it's more of a general trend. GG was just one minor spat in the larger scheme of things. Various forms of moral panic/outrage have been around forever. It's just becoming more concentrated into smaller segments of society. It's like targeted advertising but with more screaming and gnashing of teeth.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#66

Post by [deleted] »

VLM wrote: post #46
hugh4 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that nobody seems to have had anything particularly worth writing on the subject of stoicism for the past nearly-2000 years.

Human condition writing like philosophy and religion formation peaked about two millennia ago. Once its figured out, there isn't too much new to say, unlike, say, technology or fashion. You can write a popularization or translation once in awhile. An eternity of profitable textbooks are possible, just like mathematics. If you'd like a vision into what Moores Law or computer science will look like in 2000 years, you c…

[deleted]

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#68

Post by taurath »

brightball wrote: post #39
Synaesthesia wrote: post #6

Stoicism really helped me through some psychological difficulties. It contains truths which haven't altered in thousands of years.

Stoicism is basically Christianity minus God / Jesus when you really boil it down. With us watching a cultural trend of people rejecting faith regularly, yet at the same time watching a lot of the bad decisions that come from the "focussed on me" aspects that often come from it, Stoicism is a fairly expected non-theistic reaction. In a lot of ways, the concept of the tiny house movement is sort of a reflection of Sto…

Stoicism is much more self focused than Christianity. Christianity has the added dissociative effect of the source of your morals not being you, and lets one achieve a form of "humility" through being able to move thoughts judgement and morals that can't be reconciled over to the abstraction of an all-knowing other. Stoicism is much more fatalistic in that sense - whatever happens happens, rather than whatever happens is known and "matters" in the scheme of things because of God.

"Focused on me" culture is not inherently wrong for communities or cultures at at all, but when you compare straight hedonism to "selfless" christianity then its understandable to have some backlash on "me" culture. "Me focus" can also mean basically trying to achieve what is in the Serenity Prayer (written in the 1800s by a Christian theologian) -

"[God] grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference"

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#69

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

dingbat wrote: post #38
0xcde4c3db wrote: post #29

I'm a little surprised that the article doesn't mention cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). It is easily one of the "hottest" forms of psychotherapy in recent years, and is heavily inspired by Stoic ideas. Mindfulness more generally is also having a big moment in clinical psychology.

things change, CBT appears to be losing efficacy: http://digest.bps.org.uk/2015/06/is-cbt-for-depression-losin...

I wonder if this is due to allegiance effects [1] inflating the effect of CBT in the earlier studies. I would expect that the older a CBT study is, the more influence the originators and promoters of CBT had on it.

[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26033943

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#70

Post by gshubert17 »

saeranv wrote: post #16
Expez wrote: post #8

This was a wonderful read. Could someone who's gone down this path provide a reading list for someone interested in learning more?

I was introduced to stoicism through the writings of Admiral James Stockdale who was shot down in Vietnam, and was a prisoner of war for 7+ years. In his philosophical writings, he talks about how during those seven years, when everything else failed him, he could only fall back on that which he could control, the heart of stoic philosophy. This is from when he is ejected from his plane, after having been shot down b…

I believe the second link should be to stoicism2.pdf
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