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Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

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Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#21

Post by hugh4 »

kornish wrote: post #11
Expez wrote: post #8

This was a wonderful read. Could someone who's gone down this path provide a reading list for someone interested in learning more?

The three best-known literary products of Stoic culture and philosophy are probably: - Marcus Aurelius' Meditations (make sure to get the Hays translation! By far the best). Aurelius was an emperor of Rome; Meditations are his musings to himself in later life. It's interesting to reading the internal grapplings of a man who was, to his countrymen, basically a walking god. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca's Letters from a Stoi…

Interesting that nobody seems to have had anything particularly worth writing on the subject of stoicism for the past nearly-2000 years.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#22

Post by DanielBMarkham »

One of the things I did when I was in my 20s was to look for some kind of great person to adopt as a hero, or a philosophy that would cover all of the tough questions. I guess my feeling was that there was some exact solution to everything and that putting myself in the right bucket I'd have a lot of personal questions answered.

Looking back, this is probably a good reason to wait until studying philosophy until your 30s -- you need some time actually living in order to put things in their proper place. Epistemology, especially, can really take your head for a spin.

But I finally realized that various forms of thought are not solutions, rather they are tools for dealing with the day-to-day issues that life brings. Different situations? Use different tools. The goal wasn't to find an universal answer, it was to fill a tool belt with the tools you'd need for an interesting and rewarding life.

An obvious corollary here: it's okay if the tools don't all work together at the same time. I'm a human, not a math equation. It all doesn't have to add up and be consistent in the end. (Very tough to realize and accept this as well!)

Today the three main tools I use the most are agnosticism, existentialism, and stoicism. Between these three I find that I am safely and soundly able to navigate various difficult ethical, moral, and professional questions. In addition, they give me direction for further joy and fulfillment in life. And extra bonus points: they do not preclude any of the wonderfully human and irrational beliefs I may want to pick up along the way, such as using supplements for life extension, playing the lottery, or choosing to believe in the Great Pumpkin.

Modern life is one of people instantly connecting together in mobs. Nobody can tolerate being bored, and it's very easy to spend a lot of your life without really thinking about what you're doing. Stoicism, existentialism, and agnosticism guides me in mindfulness, self-directed purpose, and the limits of my knowledge. I'm very happy to have them as part of my tool belt.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#23

Post by briancleland »

Udo wrote: post #17

The problem is that stoic people can suffer a serious social penalty to their interests and the cooperation they get from others. It's expected that, once you are in a bad situation, you fight in an outwardly visible fashion. If you don't display the markers of frustration in an easily understandable way, people will think you just don't care enough. Meanwhile, there is little downside to histrionics and unreasonable…

There is only a disadvantage if you place value in externals. The most important lesson in Stoicism is that only the things in our power are good or bad, whereas externals have no intrinsic value.

"Wherefore, O judges, be of good cheer about death, and know this of a truth - that no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after death."

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#24

Post by briancleland »

Expez wrote: post #8

This was a wonderful read. Could someone who's gone down this path provide a reading list for someone interested in learning more?

I'd suggest reading the Enchiridion first. It's arguably the most influential text of all, and it's a very quick read.

http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#25

Post by TickleMeHellNo »

chipsy wrote: post #7
hugh4 wrote: post #4

Is stoicism having a cultural moment? I rather think that modern western culture is about as un-Stoic as it has been at any point since... sometime before Stoicism was invented, and that any explicit endorsement of Stoicism you may find among the remaining sane people is purely a reaction to that. Stoicism teaches that suffering and misfortune are part of life, and that wisdom comes from learning to deal with this fa…

The snowflake syndrome is the modern means of building a minority political bloc - for any underrepresented group or condition, a representative comes along and declares themselves champion of the people(the people that they represent, that is), and encourages shaming of the rest as a form of unification. It's the shaming that eventually got to me. It's such a prolific and harmful tactic. The people who do it the mos…

Nailed my personal experience. I wonder how many others of us there are?

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#26

Post by tonyedgecombe »

stinos wrote: post #20
hugh4 wrote: post #4

Is stoicism having a cultural moment? I rather think that modern western culture is about as un-Stoic as it has been at any point since... sometime before Stoicism was invented, and that any explicit endorsement of Stoicism you may find among the remaining sane people is purely a reaction to that. Stoicism teaches that suffering and misfortune are part of life, and that wisdom comes from learning to deal with this fa…

Modern-day Oprah culture teaches that you are a beautiful and unique person and that any suffering or misfortune you may encounter is something that you should probably sue somebody about. close, but I'd generalize this more and adapt it so that it also relates more to non-US cultures (less Oprah, less suing), and by removing the action (suing) from it and replacing it with what people tend to think, not how they rea…

I think it's the opposite, modern day culture celebrates individuals and their achievements as though they created their success on their own, that luck had nothing to do with it. We put people like Zuckerberg on a pedestal when at least some (much?) of their success comes from the luck of having the right parents, being born at the right time, having an interest that happens to be financially valuable and so on.

The downside to this attitude is that we look down on people who weren't lucky, who had the misfortune to be born into an uneducated family, who weren't in the right place at the right time and so on through no fault of their own.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#27

Post by fluidcruft »

hugh4 wrote: post #21
kornish wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The three best-known literary products of Stoic culture and philosophy are probably: - Marcus Aurelius' Meditations (make sure to get the Hays translation! By far the best). Aurelius was an emperor of Rome; Meditations are his musings to himself in later life. It's interesting to reading the internal grapplings of a man who was, to his countrymen, basically a walking god. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca's Letters from a Stoi…

Interesting that nobody seems to have had anything particularly worth writing on the subject of stoicism for the past nearly-2000 years.

Stoicism is a secular buddhism for people that don't like the buddhist brand.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#28

Post by marktangotango »

rodgerd wrote: post #12
Animats wrote: post #2

Probably because it helps justify longer working hours and low pay.

There's a certain temptation to ascribe it to a cynical desire to convince people they shouldn't try to change their lot.

Viewed in the historical context, Seneca the younger lived in the time when crucifixion, impalement, and gladiator games where in full swing, so the comparatively speaking, the bad then was quiet a bit worse than the bad now. In my view that makes the grand parents comment quiet shallow.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#29

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

I'm a little surprised that the article doesn't mention cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). It is easily one of the "hottest" forms of psychotherapy in recent years, and is heavily inspired by Stoic ideas. Mindfulness more generally is also having a big moment in clinical psychology.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#30

Post by Pamar »

Expez wrote: post #8

This was a wonderful read. Could someone who's gone down this path provide a reading list for someone interested in learning more?

I have some resources on my personal webpage, hope you may find these useful:

http://pa-mar.net/Main/Lifestyle/Stoicism.html

(and will probably update it in a few hours adding stuff from this thread ;)

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