Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#11

Post by kornish » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 8:22 AM UTC

Expez wrote: post #8

This was a wonderful read. Could someone who's gone down this path provide a reading list for someone interested in learning more?

The three best-known literary products of Stoic culture and philosophy are probably:

- Marcus Aurelius' Meditations (make sure to get the Hays translation! By far the best). Aurelius was an emperor of Rome; Meditations are his musings to himself in later life. It's interesting to reading the internal grapplings of a man who was, to his countrymen, basically a walking god.

- Lucius Annaeus Seneca's Letters from a Stoic

- Epictetus' Enchiridion, which translates roughly as "handbook" and was assembled from the teachings of Epictetus, an exiled former slave, to those who traveled to live and study with him.

I strongly recommend all three. If you're interested in more modern interpretations of the above, a couple good jumping off points would be A Guide to the Good Life by William Irvine (which was mostly pretty good) or The Inner Citadel by Pierre Hadot (which studies Meditations). Ryan Holiday also has a book called The Obstacle Is The Way, though I didn't enjoy it as much as any listed above, to be honest.

A personal favorite gem which, found several years ago: http://stoicletters.blogspot.com/. This blog bundles Seneca's letters into a modern style of prose and is much more accessible while conveying much of the same meaning as the original letters.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#12

Post by rodgerd » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 8:24 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #2

Probably because it helps justify longer working hours and low pay.

There's a certain temptation to ascribe it to a cynical desire to convince people they shouldn't try to change their lot.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#13

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 8:54 AM UTC

here they compare stoic virtues with Hindu notions of dharma. The author speculates that Stoics were somehow influenced by Hindu thought. Maybe a new interest in Stoicism is partly inspired by exposure to Hinduist beliefs.

http://www.studiesincomparativereligion.com/public/articles/...

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#14

Post by visakanv » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 8:57 AM UTC

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #13

here they compare stoic virtues with Hindu notions of dharma. The author speculates that Stoics were somehow influenced by Hindu thought. Maybe a new interest in Stoicism is partly inspired by exposure to Hinduist beliefs. http://www.studiesincomparativereligion.com/public/articles/...

> Hinduist thought

Nitpicking, but "Hindu thought" will do! Thanks for the link.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#15

Post by stoikerty » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 8:59 AM UTC

wait what

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#16

Post by saeranv » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 9:16 AM UTC

Expez wrote: post #8

This was a wonderful read. Could someone who's gone down this path provide a reading list for someone interested in learning more?

I was introduced to stoicism through the writings of Admiral James Stockdale who was shot down in Vietnam, and was a prisoner of war for 7+ years.

In his philosophical writings, he talks about how during those seven years, when everything else failed him, he could only fall back on that which he could control, the heart of stoic philosophy.

This is from when he is ejected from his plane, after having been shot down by enemy fire:

"After ejection I had about 30 seconds to make my last statement in freedom before I landed on the main street of that little village right ahead. And so help me, I whispered to myself: "Five years down there at least. I'm leaving the world of technology and entering the world of Epicetus.""

Here are the two essays I read, and would recommend.

http://www.usna.edu/Ethics/_files/documents/stoicism1.pdf http://www.usna.edu/Ethics/_files/documents/stoicism1.pdf

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#17

Post by Udo » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 9:20 AM UTC

The problem is that stoic people can suffer a serious social penalty to their interests and the cooperation they get from others. It's expected that, once you are in a bad situation, you fight in an outwardly visible fashion. If you don't display the markers of frustration in an easily understandable way, people will think you just don't care enough. Meanwhile, there is little downside to histrionics and unreasonable demands, putting the stoic at a severe disadvantage.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#18

Post by tomhoward » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 10:15 AM UTC

Udo wrote: post #17

The problem is that stoic people can suffer a serious social penalty to their interests and the cooperation they get from others. It's expected that, once you are in a bad situation, you fight in an outwardly visible fashion. If you don't display the markers of frustration in an easily understandable way, people will think you just don't care enough. Meanwhile, there is little downside to histrionics and unreasonable…

I know what you mean, having been through this journey and experienced the kind of thing you're talking about. But in the end, the calmness and tranquility that comes from removing yourself from the drama and histrionics of the rest of the world is its own victory, and any "social penalty" turns out to be quite a gift.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#19

Post by tljr » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 10:22 AM UTC

Prisoner mentality.

Sorry, I like to answer titles that end in question marks. Because they're questions. Not Titles.

Re: Why Is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment?

#20

Post by stinos » Mon, Oct 12, 2015, 10:34 AM UTC

hugh4 wrote: post #4

Is stoicism having a cultural moment? I rather think that modern western culture is about as un-Stoic as it has been at any point since... sometime before Stoicism was invented, and that any explicit endorsement of Stoicism you may find among the remaining sane people is purely a reaction to that. Stoicism teaches that suffering and misfortune are part of life, and that wisdom comes from learning to deal with this fa…

Modern-day Oprah culture teaches that you are a beautiful and unique person and that any suffering or misfortune you may encounter is something that you should probably sue somebody about.

close, but I'd generalize this more and adapt it so that it also relates more to non-US cultures (less Oprah, less suing), and by removing the action (suing) from it and replacing it with what people tend to think, not how they react to it - something like

"Modern-day culture teaches that you are a beautiful and unique person and that any suffering or misfortune you may encounter is somebody else's, or the system's, fault"

At least that is how I perceive the group I think you are targetting here.