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Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#121

Post by guard-of-terra »

jkahn wrote: post #45
smt88 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> provide the same level (or greater) services I don't agree with that in all cases, and I particularly don't agree related to Uber. When I lived in NYC, I often called "311" to complain about taxi-driver misconduct. This was the only outlet, and you really only did it because you wanted to feel better. There were never any direct consequences that you knew of. If you consider the decreased cost of operating the 311…

That's not what I mean. I'm talking about what the tax money collected gets spent on by government - roads, healthcare, infrastructure, aged pensions. If industry X was paying $100mm tax, and industry Y disrupts and replaces that, while paying only $20mm tax, the government needs to find $80 million to replace that tax shortfall. Nothing to do with taxi related services...

Tax regular car drivers more. There's simply no reason why taxi users should (indirectly) foot that bill more than car owners. If your tax were set up on assumption that taxi is a premium service, time to rethink it.

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#122

Post by icebraining »

mattmanser wrote: post #117
raverbashing wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, how much Apple money stays outside of the US because it was paid there? Also, how much VAT and other taxes are charged in an iPhone sold in Europe Same for Facebook, their ads generate VAT. Their employees there pay income tax.

If I didn't buy an iPhone, I'd buy a different phone. The VAT would still be there. If I didn't use Facebook I'd be using a different image sharing service, or chat service, or whatever. The VAT would still be there. Because I have a budget to spend on entertainment, and various companies compete for that budget. We pay those taxes, Facebook/Apple doesn't 'generate' anything, that money would be spent on a different…

And worse still, that money's sitting in an offshore account somewhere, not even flowing back into the US economy, because they're waiting for a tax break. So instead of doing what it's supposed to do, which is spur more growth, it's doing the worst thing it can, which is being excluded from the world economy.

Not really. "New Data Show Corporate Offshore Funds Not “Trapped” Abroad: Nearly Half of So-Called “Offshore” Funds Already in the United States": http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/subcommittees/investigations/med...

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#123

Post by lorenzhs »

rmc wrote: post #89
lagadu wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how most of Europe does VAT: food, cultural and other essential products enjoy a very reduced VAT rate in many (but not all) countries here[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax#Tax_rates

There can still be VAT for things poor people buy. Is there chocolate on your biscuit? Then it's "luxury" and you have to pay VAT.

True, but at least the price label in the supermarket is the final price you pay, no nasty surprises at checkout. VAT is already included in the advertised price, so you know exactly how much you'll have to pay. Apparently, the same is not true of sales tax in (some states of?) the US.

It doesn't say the VAT rate on the label, but you can figure that out from your receipt after solving a bin packing problem :) Receipts contain a listing of the different VAT rates (e.g. in Germany, x€ at 19% and y€ at 7%)

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#124

Post by bensummers »

ajnin wrote: post #67
kuyfiuyg wrote: post #19

I'm asking someone who is more knowledgeable than me on this topic. What would happen if you replace all (most) tax with VAT? That would mean everywhere there is a real transaction, that generates greater value, that is where the tax is. It would also make it impossible for big companies to do tax evasion - since you limit the effects to the 'leaves' of the tree that is the economic system, you can catch the money be…

VAT is the most unjust tax there is. People with low income spend it on things like food, clothing, housing, entertainment, that are all subjected to VAT, whereas richer people have access to the stock market, investment, and tax lawyers, and pay relatively less VAT. VAT is effectively a degressive tax, if you leave only VAT then you accept a system where the poor pay for the rich. However this is already the case in…

You don't pay VAT on "essential goods", eg food, clothing, rent, etc.

Of course the rules are a bit fool about what is essential, and VAT is still a terribly regressive tax.

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#125

Post by guard-of-terra »

exDM69 wrote: post #77
jkahn wrote: post #12

Global companies offshoring profits and not paying enough tax (in the eyes of many countries) was a hot topic at the last G20 summit in Brisbane. This isn't limited to Facebook, as the article explains. The issue and background here is that when large companies operate globally, each country has its own local subsidiary, owned by the global entity. Money is made in each country by selling goods or services. How are t…

Apple is a particularly difficult case, because they control every link in the chain of supply from manufacturing to retail and pay less than 1% effective corporate tax from their profits. From every step of the supply chain. It is very difficult, if not impossible, to compete with Apple without having a similar end-to-end control of manufacturing to retail. If a company has to purchase their products from a manufact…

Apple sells a huge number of physical devices - phones and tablets. They created a new market, and now governments are able to collect VAT and sometimes customs tariffs on all those smartphones. Why not let Apple have what's left?

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#126

Post by marrs »

domfletcher wrote: post #42
mrkmcknz wrote: post #18

The UK press seems to have a field day when it comes to multi-national corporations not paying corporation tax. We will no doubt shortly have a number of MPs telling us how unacceptable this is and that Facebook need to start paying up. This all irks me a little. 362 Facebook staff on an average salary of say £65,000 will contribute at least £7,230,696.60 in taxes and NI to HMRC. Let's also not pretend that £65,000 i…

The thing is that is the employees that pay the the income tax _not_ Facebook. Facebook (and others) are still not paying the taxes on the the income they earn from operating in the UK no matter how many people they employ at high salaries. The choice you present is a false one, the multiplier productivity effect that Facebook employees gain from operating in London as opposed to Dublin far outweighs what Facebook wo…

You forgot the VAT that Facebook's UK clients have to pay, the VAT Facebook have to pay on their expenses in the UK, the council tax that they have to pay on their offices, the pension and NI contributions they have to make, etc, etc.

At the end of the day, they aren't a UK corporation, so why should their corporation tax by high?

To be honest, it's hard for me to really form an opinion on this when the information provided by the media is so superficial. For that reason I tend to share mrkmcknz's sentiment. It all smells too much of the kind of trolling that's institutionalised in the media now.

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#127

Post by aianus »

nathanvanfleet wrote: post #71
smt88 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> provide the same level (or greater) services I don't agree with that in all cases, and I particularly don't agree related to Uber. When I lived in NYC, I often called "311" to complain about taxi-driver misconduct. This was the only outlet, and you really only did it because you wanted to feel better. There were never any direct consequences that you knew of. If you consider the decreased cost of operating the 311…

You have a lot of problems with your argument. If you have a local taxi company, you make tax money from that company. If it's at least in your country, you make tax money from that company. If the support employees are in your city/country, you make tax money from those people. So if the company is not from your country, and their support/offices/profits all go somewhere else, it's a loss for you (as a city or count…

> 1 person making 100x more than an average person is going to pay less net taxes and will buy fewer things (even if it's more expensive stuff) than 100 people.

This just isn't true at all.

The top 1% of earners in the US pay more tax than the bottom 90% combined. Sometimes rich people pay a smaller percentage of their income than less-rich people but in absolute terms poor people and middle class constitute a minority of the tax base.

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#128

Post by marrs »

rmc wrote: post #86
s_dev wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they'd pay more or less tax in Dublin compared to £5k? Irelands 12.5% seems very reasonable considering its so close to its effective rate. France, Britain and Germany all allow massive write offs and loop holes that mean their effective rate is multiples lower than their stated corporate tax rate and this story will be forgotten by the Brits, Germans and French who'll turn around and repeat their condem…

It's always funny when Brits complain about foreign tax havens. The UK is a massive tax haven, with oodles of little overseas territories, or Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands.

Neither the Isle of Man nor the Channel Islands are a part of the UK.

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#129

Post by raverbashing »

tobltobs wrote: post #115
raverbashing wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, how much Apple money stays outside of the US because it was paid there? Also, how much VAT and other taxes are charged in an iPhone sold in Europe Same for Facebook, their ads generate VAT. Their employees there pay income tax.

First we were told to be nice to the rich and give them tax reduction, because we will be all happy for the trickling down pennies. And now we are supposed to give the cooperation tax relief because there is money trickling down from the employees?

Do you know what's even better? The rich taking their business somewhere else

Then the unions can cry foul about how the big bad companies wouldn't put up with their crap anymore

I'm sure in an ideal world everybody would be a public servant with no productivity goals but that has problems as well

Re: Facebook paid £4,327 corporation tax in the UK in 2014

#130

Post by coldtea »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #125
exDM69 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a particularly difficult case, because they control every link in the chain of supply from manufacturing to retail and pay less than 1% effective corporate tax from their profits. From every step of the supply chain. It is very difficult, if not impossible, to compete with Apple without having a similar end-to-end control of manufacturing to retail. If a company has to purchase their products from a manufact…

Apple sells a huge number of physical devices - phones and tablets. They created a new market, and now governments are able to collect VAT and sometimes customs tariffs on all those smartphones. Why not let Apple have what's left?

>Why not let Apple have what's left?

Because other businesses also create products that collect VAT and still pay their taxes. Why should Apple be any different?

To promote those that are big enough to avoid taxation to make them even bigger?

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