Cannabis Access and Academic Performance • Hacker News Board

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#51

Post by Ensorceled » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:15 PM UTC

98Windows wrote: post #39

DarkContinent wrote: post #35

The real concern with this study is not the possible negative effects of marijuana (which are already known) but the moral correctness of its legalization. I personally have not and never will smoke pot, but that doesn't mean I support the continuing ban in America. Everyone has the right to determine his own destiny, and if engaging in personally (but not socially) destructive behaviors like smoking pot is a person'…

How harmful would cannabis have to be to people until you'd consider banning it?

Personally, it would have to be worse than the impact on your life for getting a felony charge for possession.

This whole "we have to put people in jail and destroy any and all future job prospects for their own protection" is madness.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#52

Post by JakeAl » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

https://www.drugabuse.gov/about-nida/legislative-activities/...

Posted for the list of data sources. Read all of the articles on the site if you can. Conclusion: If you are fked up you are fed up and one would be showing poor judgement at the least and be legally liable at the most if they trusted you with ther child, finances, or company, regardless of how functional a drug-addict you are.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#53

Post by losvedir » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

zmk_ wrote: post #32

One thing that jumps at me in this study is the high risk of investigating two different populations with different characteristics. Foreign students are more likely to be high achievers (and high-achieving women), quantitative degrees are also in higher demand from foreigners and more likely to be in English. If you are Dutch you can pick whatever university/field you want and they will admit you (exception is medic…

The study used a "diffs-in-diffs" technique which would control for that. It takes the difference between two groups, say English and Dutch, prior to banning marijuana for English students, and then looks at the difference between the two groups afterwards. So it's a way of looking at how the performance of the English group changed with banning the drug, while trying to control for the things that affected _all_ students.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#54

Post by tpllaha » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:21 PM UTC

Well... I can see how it can be easy to reach conclusions like this. The same result (most likely even worse) would be reached even if the effect of alcohol was studied instead of cannabis. This is not surprising, but neither is it interesting in my opinion. Of course there is a correlation between time spent doing mentally engaging activities and success, and surely smoking weed is not a mentally engaging activity. But this does not imply anything about moderate consumption in leisure time, neither does it mean that we should never engage in activities in which we do not exercise our brain.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#55

Post by throwawayaway » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

willholloway wrote: post #47

Alcohol is the real threat to cognition, and we don't talk about it. [1] [2] We don't know where the line is exactly, but somewhere around 4-5 drinks over a few hours has an acute neurotoxic effect. Cannabis use in adolescents does not result in changes that can be picked up on high resolution MRI scans. [3] This is a considerable finding considering that one would expect changes just from the added stress of being a…

if people used other drugs as heavily as alcohol is used, then it's not going to be sunshine and roses. it's the volume of alcohol consumed that's the problem. too much of anything is bad for you, as the saying goes.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#56

Post by jtedward » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #46

I think things like drugs and alcohol are worse for growing brains. From a NYC teacher (One reference point) "I’ve taught high school for 25 years and I hate what marijuana does to my students. It goes beyond missing homework assignments. My students become less curious when they start smoking pot. I’ve seen it time and time again. People say pot makes you more creative, but from what I’ve seen, it narrows my student…

I think our modern education system has done more to blunt people the curiosity of young people then these drugs possibly could.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#57

Post by andrepd » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

DarkContinent wrote: post #35

The real concern with this study is not the possible negative effects of marijuana (which are already known) but the moral correctness of its legalization. I personally have not and never will smoke pot, but that doesn't mean I support the continuing ban in America. Everyone has the right to determine his own destiny, and if engaging in personally (but not socially) destructive behaviors like smoking pot is a person'…

Would you extend that reasoning to heroin, for instance?

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#58

Post by willholloway » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:41 PM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #46

I think things like drugs and alcohol are worse for growing brains. From a NYC teacher (One reference point) "I’ve taught high school for 25 years and I hate what marijuana does to my students. It goes beyond missing homework assignments. My students become less curious when they start smoking pot. I’ve seen it time and time again. People say pot makes you more creative, but from what I’ve seen, it narrows my student…

I think this teacher should take this as an opportunity to examine what it is he, and the institution he works for is offering these students as an alternative, and consider the students are making rational choices that serve them better.

We know from the Rat Park study that rats in an enriched environment full of positive social engagement and freedom do not choose morphine. [1]

If the students are choosing drugs, it's because they are trapped in a bare metal cage.

For high achievers the do good in high school so you can go to a good college so you can get a good job track can be financially rewarding, but it is also stressful, often leads to burn out and depression and at the end a kind of existential malaise.

For average students this track means bleak economic prospects, low status, a boring monotony with high student loan debt burden.

Cannabis based friendships while in high school form extremely tight, rewarding social bonds. With a shared group identity and shared activities. Going to a concert and getting 'so high' can be an extremely life affirming peak experience that strengthens social bonds.

If his students are rejecting society's plan for them and choosing another, perhaps he should examine what it is he is offering. The conclusion often made from his sentiment is a reflexive authoritarian prohibition.

I know many high achieving friends that rejected society's plan, got high, had fun and went on to start lucrative tech careers, and started businesses that are building the future.

I know many other average students that rejected society's plan, got high, had fun and went on to live rewarding ski-bum lifestyles funded by bar tending, waiting tables, and small scale real estate investment.

The people with their boot on your face don't have your best interests at heart. Believe in yourself, and find your own way.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#59

Post by tunap » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:50 PM UTC

dubhrosa wrote: post #37

marincounty wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the nineties, and and up to about ten years ago, I would hear Doctors mention "chemical imbalance". Today, I couldn't imagine a medical doctor claiming a person/patient has a chemical imbalance. The truth is they just don't know what causes mental illness, and most mental disabilities. For awhile, it looked like they could increase dopamine, decrease serotonin, blah, blah, etc. and they were finally getting a hand…

The most extreme critics of SSRIs would argue that the alterations to the brain caused by these drugs are severe and irreversible. Another genuine question: what makes us so sure that future generations won't look back at the widespread prescription of brain altering drugs that operate on practically immeasurable and poorly understood mechanisms, as being so different to lobotomies?

Correlation that has stuck with me for 15 years. An acquaintance of mine stated years ago, when we were in our late 20's, that she was put on SSRIs from 13-17 years old and had absolutely no memories of those years. No recall of her teen years, whatsoever. That struck me as incredibly tragic.

Around the same time another friend was taking a smoking-cessation drug that induced very graphic vusuals of dismembering various family members... but I digress.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#60

Post by peter303 » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:53 PM UTC

Glad to see some sort of scientific study on this. Too much of the debate is based on ideology and hearsay, not systematic study.

Colorado sets aside a quarter of its pot taxes for scientific study. Fed funding sources generally ban or highly restrict such studies. So we dont have good modern evidence for the claimed benefits or harms of drugs.