Cannabis Access and Academic Performance • Hacker News Board

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#21

Post by jon-wood » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:53 AM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #8

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

Yet for me a few months of pot gave me a stutter for two years, and I'm pretty sure killed my motivation in my final school year. I eventually got my act together and got an engineering degree, but I'd definitely recommend against pot use.

As would I. I missed my late teens and early twenties while sitting in a haze of pot smoke, and while I did have some interesting experiences, the time would have been far better spent learning to deal with life in healthier ways. Ten years on, and I'm still dealing with the aftermath of those poor decisions.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#22

Post by _98fj » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:58 AM UTC

dubhrosa wrote: post #17

_98fj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling) Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many u…

Genuine question: has there been any study that actually measured the "levels" of neurotransmitters in the brain and correlated them with the subjects' behavior? Has there been any study that actually demonstrates what the normal levels of these chemicals are in adults and children, and what the normal range is, and what environmental and nutritional factors can influence them? I ask because I constantly hear the "ch…

I wanted to elaborate on that point. You are completely right.

There are laboratories measuring that stuff from urine and saliva. They are expensive and the results also need to be controlled for things like normal thyroid function, so you can map properly derive levels in the brain. Also the tests need to be done at different times of the day.

The test-results include ranges. Interpreting and correlating the values and if they are problematic is the work of the few doctors who work with these labs. A bit like with cholesterol levels in the blood.

A doctor once told me that you can't tell for sure, and there are complete surprises, but normally, if she sees a result-sheet she can give a relatively accurate guess about how the person "generally feels" over the day (tired, happy, hungry, anxious, stressed, relaxed, trouble sleeping or not etc.)

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#23

Post by cowsandmilk » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 10:59 AM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

P. Diddy has been known to go for 4 days without sleeping, seemingly with no ill effects according to assistants who have had to stay awake and by his side during these times.

I'm sure this self-reported N of 1 study is extremely relevant to sleep researchers all over the world.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#24

Post by dubhrosa » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:01 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #18

dubhrosa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: has there been any study that actually measured the "levels" of neurotransmitters in the brain and correlated them with the subjects' behavior? Has there been any study that actually demonstrates what the normal levels of these chemicals are in adults and children, and what the normal range is, and what environmental and nutritional factors can influence them? I ask because I constantly hear the "ch…

> I ask because I constantly hear the "chemical imbalance" explanation for behavioural issues and prescribing these drugs, EDIT: can I check: are you hearing that from doctors doing the prescribing?

Yes Edit: I also hear it frequently from parents of children who have been referred to psychiatrists by their schoolteachers for (in my opinion at least) fairly minor disruptive behaviour in class; they are repeating what the psychiatrists tell them. The psychiatrists also quote statistics like "half of Swedish inmates are adhd, so if you don't treat your child's adhd there's a good chance he'll end up a criminal (yes really). Here in the UK the diagnosing psychiatrist is also the one that the child must return to twice a year for a checkup at 500 pounds per visit.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#25

Post by digi_owl » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:30 AM UTC

_98fj wrote: post #6

It appears that regular cannabis use [0] decreases dopaminergic brain-activity [1]. Dopamine is often referred to as "pleasure"-transmitter, but it's function in certain parts of the brain is better thought of as "regulating expectation", therefore influencing drive & motivation. It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This works by enabling you…

> It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward.

In that case i must be severely dopamine deficient...

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#26

Post by marmaduke » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:32 AM UTC

_98fj wrote: post #6

It appears that regular cannabis use [0] decreases dopaminergic brain-activity [1]. Dopamine is often referred to as "pleasure"-transmitter, but it's function in certain parts of the brain is better thought of as "regulating expectation", therefore influencing drive & motivation. It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This works by enabling you…

> Cannabis blunts motivation

perspicacious diction

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#27

Post by digi_owl » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:33 AM UTC

mikekchar wrote: post #7

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

It's interesting. I was just thinking a little while ago about the tendency for smart people to equate being smart with being right. A while ago I was mentoring a young colleague of mine and I warned him that it is often the case that when we experience one failed project after another, we tend to think, "People should listen to me. I've seen every way to make a project fail and so I know how to make a project succee…

The thing about being wrong is interesting.

It reminds me of something i read about a bright young developer that joined a company, got assigned tasks, completed them brilliantly, until the day that one stumped him.

Afterwards he claimed that the experience had been the best he could have, because until that day he had not really faced failure.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#28

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:39 AM UTC

_98fj wrote: post #16

engx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you wrote is not definitive. What is the cause of ADHD? There is no physical test for it and its cause is unknown. Some experts believe it is caused by other things, like patterns of thinking. There is absolutely no evidence that millions of people have a physical biological issue where a stimulant effects them differently than normal people. An amphetamine is an amphetamine is an amphetamine. And: A new study c…

What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling) Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many u…

[deleted]

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#29

Post by benihana » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:46 AM UTC

marmaduke wrote: post #26

_98fj wrote: post #6

It appears that regular cannabis use [0] decreases dopaminergic brain-activity [1]. Dopamine is often referred to as "pleasure"-transmitter, but it's function in certain parts of the brain is better thought of as "regulating expectation", therefore influencing drive & motivation. It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This works by enabling you…

> Cannabis blunts motivation perspicacious diction

really great contribution to the discussion, thanks for sharing.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#30

Post by lazyjones » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 11:48 AM UTC

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

The abstract clearly points out that the observed (negative) effect is stronger for low performers and women.

Furthermore, Yegge's rant is a bit short on actual facts that would show possible effects. For example, did his career changes happen due to increased pot consumption at the time? Did he abandon his PhD plans because of it? Did he even smoke before high school (at the age of 11)? We don't know.