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Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

cee.lse.ac.uk

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Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#11

Post by Camillo »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

That doesn't even make sense. Who's to say he would not have done even better if he had not smoked pot? How can he assume his case generalizes across the population? How does someone who is So Very Smart not realize this? Did his AP courses not give him an inkling of the scientific method?

For what it's worth, that blog post caused a tiny increase in my propensity to believe marijuana is harmful.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#12

Post by agumonkey »

lubonay wrote: post #5
guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

I can't quote a source, but I recall one study correlating higher IQ with higher risk of psychoactive drug usage. Maybe your brain is amazing enough to not be hindered by smoking pot. Maybe the performance decline is not noticeable and you continue to function well. Maybe you've smoked so much marijuana that you have a strong resistance to its effects. But then again, maybe you are the exception - that's the problem…

Good point, people brain and psyche structure can respond differently to substances. To some it might free the system of some problems, balances things so you can focus or be more relaxed longer, but for others it might just trigger 'unproductive' fun.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#13

Post by engx »

_98fj wrote: post #6

It appears that regular cannabis use [0] decreases dopaminergic brain-activity [1]. Dopamine is often referred to as "pleasure"-transmitter, but it's function in certain parts of the brain is better thought of as "regulating expectation", therefore influencing drive & motivation. It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This works by enabling you…

What you wrote is not definitive.

What is the cause of ADHD? There is no physical test for it and its cause is unknown. Some experts believe it is caused by other things, like patterns of thinking.

There is absolutely no evidence that millions of people have a physical biological issue where a stimulant effects them differently than normal people.

An amphetamine is an amphetamine is an amphetamine.

And:

A new study challenges the popular idea that dysfunction in dopamine — a chemical that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure centers — is the main cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/02/chemical-imbalance-i...

In truth, the “chemical imbalance” notion was always a kind of urban legend- - never a theory seriously propounded by well-informed psychiatrists. - http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/couch-crisis/psychiatr...

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#14

Post by Uptrenda »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

This really has nothing to do with the study but congrats ... I guess.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#15

Post by engx »

Camillo wrote: post #11
guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

That doesn't even make sense. Who's to say he would not have done even better if he had not smoked pot? How can he assume his case generalizes across the population? How does someone who is So Very Smart not realize this? Did his AP courses not give him an inkling of the scientific method? For what it's worth, that blog post caused a tiny increase in my propensity to believe marijuana is harmful.

And maybe Yegge would had accomplished less without weed? The point is, he still accomplished all that while having smoked a lot of weed. True you can't generalize across the population but his story is still relevant. Maybe Francis Crick would had invented time travel if it wasn't for LSD.

I know 10 doctors and surgeons, and the majority smoke weed and do cocaine (not everyday / nor every week). I wouldn't say they are great people though.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#16

Post by _98fj »

engx wrote: post #13
_98fj wrote: post #6

It appears that regular cannabis use [0] decreases dopaminergic brain-activity [1]. Dopamine is often referred to as "pleasure"-transmitter, but it's function in certain parts of the brain is better thought of as "regulating expectation", therefore influencing drive & motivation. It makes it possible to work on stuff you don't particularly enjoy by focussing on an expected long-term reward. This works by enabling you…

What you wrote is not definitive. What is the cause of ADHD? There is no physical test for it and its cause is unknown. Some experts believe it is caused by other things, like patterns of thinking. There is absolutely no evidence that millions of people have a physical biological issue where a stimulant effects them differently than normal people. An amphetamine is an amphetamine is an amphetamine. And: A new study c…

What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling)

Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many unpredictable effects. Administration of amphetamine might calm you, by exciting a down-regulating part of your brain, that is "structured correctly" (lack of a better word) and simultaneously give you anxiety by exciting the amygdala. It differs from person to person.

It's also no wonder that people and scientists interchangeably exclaim "Behaviour!", "Genes!", "Education!", "Lack of dopamine!" when trying to explain ADHD. It's a mixture of all of those things, but there is definitely a genetic component, which seems to make certain kinds of people way way less apt in controlling their impulses.

Psychiatric drugs don't change the structure of your brain, but, if administered carefully, they lower the bar to change it by behaviour and thoughts, thus being ultimately able to get rid of the medication all together.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#17

Post by dubhrosa »

_98fj wrote: post #16
engx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you wrote is not definitive. What is the cause of ADHD? There is no physical test for it and its cause is unknown. Some experts believe it is caused by other things, like patterns of thinking. There is absolutely no evidence that millions of people have a physical biological issue where a stimulant effects them differently than normal people. An amphetamine is an amphetamine is an amphetamine. And: A new study c…

What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling) Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many u…

Genuine question: has there been any study that actually measured the "levels" of neurotransmitters in the brain and correlated them with the subjects' behavior? Has there been any study that actually demonstrates what the normal levels of these chemicals are in adults and children, and what the normal range is, and what environmental and nutritional factors can influence them? I ask because I constantly hear the "chemical imbalance" explanation for behavioural issues and prescribing these drugs, but I have not ever found a paper that actually provides scientific evidence for this explanation.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#18

Post by DanBC »

dubhrosa wrote: post #17
_98fj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling) Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many u…

Genuine question: has there been any study that actually measured the "levels" of neurotransmitters in the brain and correlated them with the subjects' behavior? Has there been any study that actually demonstrates what the normal levels of these chemicals are in adults and children, and what the normal range is, and what environmental and nutritional factors can influence them? I ask because I constantly hear the "ch…

> I ask because I constantly hear the "chemical imbalance" explanation for behavioural issues and prescribing these drugs,

EDIT: can I check: are you hearing that from doctors doing the prescribing?

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#19

Post by techdragon »

dubhrosa wrote: post #17
_98fj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes conversations about this very confusing is the fact that neurotransmitters and "chemical imbalances" cannot be seen in isolation. What we are talking about is signalling inside particular structures. Changes in signalling over time effect changes in structure, just like different behaviour does. (actually different behaviour IS change in signalling) Thus it's no wonder that psychiatric drugs have so many u…

Genuine question: has there been any study that actually measured the "levels" of neurotransmitters in the brain and correlated them with the subjects' behavior? Has there been any study that actually demonstrates what the normal levels of these chemicals are in adults and children, and what the normal range is, and what environmental and nutritional factors can influence them? I ask because I constantly hear the "ch…

Some of this stuff is hard to measure.

Anything that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier is never going to get many samples due to the invasive procedures needed.

And for more normal blood based measurements, the protocols for measuring change over time requires a number of blood samples taken over time. The more accurate you want to be the more invasive you must become.

All the research I have read uses proxy measures, for example using PET scan and MRI techniques to measure brain activity and trying to infer the neurotransmitters based on glandular activity in the brain.

Re: Cannabis Access and Academic Performance

#20

Post by fsloth »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Steve Yegge comes to rescue: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... So... one minor, teeny-weeny almost insigificant caveat before I continue: I have smoked marijuana (and inhaled it, deeply) on more occasions than I can count. And yet I'm almost undoubtedly smarter than your kid that you're so goddamned worried about. I skipped three grades (3rd, 7th and 8th), entered high school at age 11 a…

Well endowed smart kid is not wrecked by drugs? Common entertainment drugs in general are not disastrous for mentally healthy well off people. As per rats -

http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/

I have nothing to say about drugs, but neither does Steve's anecdote.

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