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Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

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Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#31

Post by Chinjut »

samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

How many of the people pursuing any career would do it if it weren't for the salary?

(If it bothers you that salaries play a role in how people choose their majors, advocate for an economic system that allows people to pursue their ideal passions without financial worry, whether those passions are in computer science or poetry or "underwater basket weaving" or what have you. Until such a system is in place, though, it's only reasonable that people, in deciding how they'd like the rest of their life to play out, go where the opportunities are...)

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#32

Post by sridca »

samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

Not to discourage the female of the species from having fun hacking away like the rest of us do ... but you do make a good point.

Where were the "women in tech" back when computer programming was some "weird" hobby of the outcast nerds? What has always bothered me was that feminists have conveniently painted this lack of interest (prior to the financial incentives of current times) as some evil intent on the men. Sexist industry? Give me a fsck'ing break! All of their perceived sexism is in their own minds.

One would do well listening to actual female nerds than wannabe immitator-warriors. https://medium.com/@maradydd/when-nerds-collide-31895b01e68c

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#33

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

sridca wrote: post #32
samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

Not to discourage the female of the species from having fun hacking away like the rest of us do ... but you do make a good point. Where were the "women in tech" back when computer programming was some "weird" hobby of the outcast nerds? What has always bothered me was that feminists have conveniently painted this lack of interest (prior to the financial incentives of current times) as some evil intent on the men. Sex…

> Where were the "women in tech" back when computer programming was some "weird" hobby of the outcast nerds?

Programming was originally an exclusively female profession because it was seen as lowly-paid "women's work". Later it became a male profession.

But you're talking about the non-professional setting. Well, that started with the home computer revolution. There were few teenage girls programming at home because the means of doing so - home computers - were marketed almost exclusively to boys. Alas, parents seem to avoid buying boys 'girl toys' and vice-versa.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#34

Post by gozo »

sridca wrote: post #32
samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

Not to discourage the female of the species from having fun hacking away like the rest of us do ... but you do make a good point. Where were the "women in tech" back when computer programming was some "weird" hobby of the outcast nerds? What has always bothered me was that feminists have conveniently painted this lack of interest (prior to the financial incentives of current times) as some evil intent on the men. Sex…

Plenty of old school programmers were not "outcast nerds" at all, but people who happened to stumble on the subject. The whole nerd thing is something that happened mainly at certain universities and then when computing become more popular in high-schools. Women have far more than men been interested in things that doesn't mean money. Just that if you're a book, arts, craft and/or music nerd it doesn't count. By the way, when did computers ever not bring financial incentives? Back when mostly women did it maybe...

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#36

Post by reagency »

natmaster wrote: post #26
colah3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is really a case of Simpson's paradox. What we're seeing is that female students at Stanford are less concentrated on a single major than the male ones. As a result, their top pick isn't as high as the male top pick. I'd guess that the distribution of female majors is higher entropy than the male one. Simpson's paradox would be if there was some second confounding variable that corelated to gender…

I'm genuinely curious why I haven't seen any uproar about the numerous majors where men are in minority.

Because men haven't found gender related hostility or exclusion from high paying jobs in those majors.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#37

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

tomp wrote: post #29
samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

This is exactly what I think every time someone says "We need to encourage more women/people to study CS." If you're only doing it for the money, you're probably doing it wrong. Studying CS for 3 years does not a programmer/hacker make; staying up coding all night or while other kids are playing outside, for years, is what it takes.

Nerd elitism in programming needs to stop. The first hackers didn't have computers when they were kids, let me remind you.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#38

Post by reagency »

eru wrote: post #15
baldajan wrote: post #13

Really glad to see these trends, not only at Stanford, but other universities. Diversity in any field makes it richer.

> Diversity in any field makes it richer. In a testable way? I'm really interested to see which of diversity's claimed benefits hold up to scrutiny. Perfectly happy to see diversity as an end and not a means.

Do some Googling for research papers and report back what you find

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#39

Post by redbluff »

samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

Actually as an old hand (been in the game since the late 80's) the proportion of women I saw has decreased from when I first started and has only turned around in the last five or so years.

Admittedly this is mainly in a corporate environment, but most of the women I started with tended not to come back when they started their family. I think with more family friendly hours and policies such as remote and flex working this may also change.

To say that "they are only doing it for the cash" is unlikely, as from what I have seen that drive tends to run in men more so than women. cf: all the "web developers" in the first tech boom who did not know shit from clay and vanished as quickly as they came in the bust.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#40

Post by reagency »

tomp wrote: post #30
baldajan wrote: post #13

Really glad to see these trends, not only at Stanford, but other universities. Diversity in any field makes it richer.

Given the proportion of Asians in CS/programming, it's probably one of the most diverse industries. Don't fall into the feminist indoctrination that "diversity" only means women or that women are a minority.

Having 1 or 2 races dominating the population doesn't make it racially diverse.
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