Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University • Hacker News Board

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#21

Post by ngoel36 » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:21 AM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #9

rahimnathwani wrote: post #2

~50% of undergrads at Stanford are female. ~30% of new Stanford computer science majors are female.

So more than 50% of Stanford undergrads are CS? Shit. Does that not sound like aa glut?

No. Very little of a CS degree is "coding" - CS is so much more than that. It's even beyond "engineering".

A proper CS degree teaches you how to think, how to solve insanely hard problems, and how to do so with a team of other smart people - often with different personalities.

What separates CS from other degrees is that it does filter out those without the horsepower or fortitude on both the quant side (algorithms) and the creative side (systems, architecture).

That means, that even if the SV bubble crashes, CS majors are the best equipped to handle whatever career is hot next - any hiring manager at Goldman, McKinsey, or F500 company X will tell you the same.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#22

Post by ngoel36 » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:23 AM UTC

samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

A job at McKinsey or Goldman pays far more (risk-adjusted, 7-10 years out of school) than a CS degree does - you can verify that easily. If you're optimizing for money, CS is not the answer (unless you're leveraging it to get a job on Wall Street).

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#23

Post by this2shallPass » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:27 AM UTC

ngoel36 wrote: post #22

samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

A job at McKinsey or Goldman pays far more (risk-adjusted, 7-10 years out of school) than a CS degree does - you can verify that easily. If you're optimizing for money, CS is not the answer (unless you're leveraging it to get a job on Wall Street).

How many McKinsey or Goldman jobs are there? How many of the women that enter the funnel are there in 7-10 years?

In addition to money, how flexible are the McKinsey or Goldman jobs with having and raising children?

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#24

Post by InclinedPlane » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:30 AM UTC

samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

Why is this a relevant question? Of course some of them are doing it for money, why wouldn't they? You think it's any different for men?

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#25

Post by wisty » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:30 AM UTC

ngoel36 wrote: post #21

sliverstorm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So more than 50% of Stanford undergrads are CS? Shit. Does that not sound like aa glut?

No. Very little of a CS degree is "coding" - CS is so much more than that. It's even beyond "engineering". A proper CS degree teaches you how to think , how to solve insanely hard problems, and how to do so with a team of other smart people - often with different personalities. What separates CS from other degrees is that it does filter out those without the horsepower or fortitude on both the quant side (algorithms)…

> A proper CS degree teaches you how to think

Any degree that claims it teaches you how to think should ring the snake-oil alarm.

> how to solve insanely hard problems, and how to do so with a team of other smart people - often with different personalities

So how do they teach that? Or does that just mean they got a few group projects, where smart people bump into each other but don't really learn to solve problems in a team?

Unis tend to suck at teaching teamwork. Though they tend to be pretty good at teaching algorithms and systems (which are good to know, and don't go out of date too quickly).

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#26

Post by natmaster » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:44 AM UTC

colah3 wrote: post #6

adamwk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They call it Simpson's Paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox

I don't think this is really a case of Simpson's paradox. What we're seeing is that female students at Stanford are less concentrated on a single major than the male ones. As a result, their top pick isn't as high as the male top pick. I'd guess that the distribution of female majors is higher entropy than the male one. Simpson's paradox would be if there was some second confounding variable that corelated to gender…

I'm genuinely curious why I haven't seen any uproar about the numerous majors where men are in minority.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#27

Post by manigandham » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:50 AM UTC

ngoel36 wrote: post #21

sliverstorm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So more than 50% of Stanford undergrads are CS? Shit. Does that not sound like aa glut?

No. Very little of a CS degree is "coding" - CS is so much more than that. It's even beyond "engineering". A proper CS degree teaches you how to think , how to solve insanely hard problems, and how to do so with a team of other smart people - often with different personalities. What separates CS from other degrees is that it does filter out those without the horsepower or fortitude on both the quant side (algorithms)…

And the other degrees don't? Life teaches you how to think, so does education in general and the problems you face in either, academic or otherwise.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#28

Post by throwaway13337 » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 2:57 AM UTC

revelation wrote: post #3

With their high number of (rejected) applications and subjective criteria they can of course shape these statistics any way they want. So is this progress or Stanford appearing progressive ? There is no way to tell.

I don't know why people feel the need to vote the parent down. It was a valid question even if it might be progress indeed.

Schools often shape their admissions - good that this isn't one of those cases.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#29

Post by tomp » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 3:03 AM UTC

samfisher83 wrote: post #17

How many of them are just doing it for money since salaries are high right now? How many of them actually would do it if it paid 50k instead of a 100k?

This is exactly what I think every time someone says "We need to encourage more women/people to study CS." If you're only doing it for the money, you're probably doing it wrong. Studying CS for 3 years does not a programmer/hacker make; staying up coding all night or while other kids are playing outside, for years, is what it takes.

Re: Computer science is now the top major for women at Stanford University

#30

Post by tomp » Sun, Oct 11, 2015, 3:04 AM UTC

baldajan wrote: post #13

Really glad to see these trends, not only at Stanford, but other universities. Diversity in any field makes it richer.

Given the proportion of Asians in CS/programming, it's probably one of the most diverse industries. Don't fall into the feminist indoctrination that "diversity" only means women or that women are a minority.