The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared • Hacker News Board

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#151

Post by wcummings » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 1:23 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #134

Asbostos wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That implies the whole concept of developing nations is bad and we should try to prevent it. All of them have worker exploitation to some extent. Don't forget even exploited workers still choose where to work. They're not slaves. Furthermore, tariffs aren't introduced to protect foreign workers. That really isn't the reason for tariffs.

> Don't forget even exploited workers still choose where to work. We're not talking about long hours or low pay here - although those alone should be cause for concern, but about working conditions that cause death and permanent injury. They're not slaves, but they don't have that much choice about where to work. And they don't have any power within their place of work. Why do you think women "choose" to work in a cl…

Still probably better than back-breaking agricultural work, which is why so many people move to the cities to work.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#152

Post by dexterdog » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 1:36 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #98

unclebucknasty wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is very dangerous to moneyed interests in politics Which is exactly why he can't win: those moneyed interests have...money. Citizens United eviscerated of at least the appearance of a democracy.

Meanwhile, the DNC is ignoring Larry Lessing in any way it can, despite him meeting fund raising goals and being pretty much the third most serious contender since Biden has not even announced yet.

Well we can't have any choice over there, can we? It's Hillary's turn god damn it.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#153

Post by dexterdog » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 1:40 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #8

walterbell wrote: post #2

KEI has a roundup of commentary on the TPP IP chapter, http://www.keionline.org/node/2335 A 6-min explainer video on TPP and ISDS, https://youtube.com/watch?v=AABOIcXZZwg HN discussion earlier today, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10359604 From the EFF article: > "One of the scariest parts of the TPP is that not only can you be made liable to fines and criminal penalties, but that any materials and implements u…

Ripping Blu-rays for personal use is copyright infringement in many jurisdictions. I'm not sure whether anyone's actually been prosecuted for it though.

The solution to that is what they're already doing which is moving everything online. I watch movies all of the time and I still have yet to watch a single thing played off of a BluRay and I know nobody who uses them.

Fortunately there will likely never be a way to stop people from ripping video and audio from a display.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#154

Post by zrail » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #119

briandear wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious; how does Game of Thrones make money? Do they get paid when their content is shared on torrents? If they don't, then why would they continue to produce the show if they aren't getting paid? I fail to understand how stealing content is a "good" thing. It seems no different that sneaking into the theater without buying a ticket.

It's produced by HBO and has incredibly high viewership, so I imagine it's paid by (1) the increase in HBO subscribers, (2) other networks that want to run it, and (3) advertising run during the show. Stealing content is good because otherwise, the content isn't available. I'm pretty sure that in countries like Poland or Slovenia, shows like Game of Thrones arrive with a substantial delay, if at all. Plus, requiring…

HBO doesn't show advertising, but they have incredibly lucrative DVD/BluRay/streaming distribution networks. Also they have HBO Now gaining significant steam, and people will gladly pay just for Game of Thrones.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#155

Post by laichzeit0 » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

cpmsmith wrote: post #148

laichzeit0 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse my ignorance as I'm not American and perhaps miss all the nuances. - Wants to stop illegal immigration. Not immigration. Only illegal. i.e. people not paying taxes but living there undocumented - Non-citizens giving birth in USA and then automatically the baby is USA's problem until it dies - Tax reform that wants to stop corporate inversion and bring money back to USA (Google, Apple, etc.) - Wants a more comp…

First off, I'm not American either. It's crazy because you've just given the entire substance of his campaign. He hasn't actually given any more details than that, and the points are ostensibly chosen because they're easily latched onto by people who can't be bothered to pay very much attention. Also the wall thing.

But I don't see anyone on the internet writing articles rebutting any of the points. I.e. I'd expect someone to write an article where they negate each point on that list e.g. "Illegal immigration - I think Trump is crazy to bring this point up because there is nothing wrong with illegal immigration. The reason we should not be against illegal immigration is because ..." and so on and so on, for each point. The wall is an implementation detail. I see people focus on that but then it's almost like they're trying to avoid the topic.

Trump seems like a very pragmatic reasoner. Keeps things simple. His way of reasoning seems to go something like this: "Illegal immigration. Are you for it, or against it? Against it? Ok. Would a wall help? Yes or no. Yes? Ok but you seem apprehensive about it. Why are you apprehensive? It's going to be expensive? We have a trade deficit with Mexico. I bet I could force them to pay for it by using strong arm tactics and adding taxes onto things they like exporting here. I'm good at negotating shit like that. Are you still apprehensive?" And so on.

I just simply can't find any coherently written rebuttals other than articles that go "Trump is crazy. He's an narcissist. He's a racist" basically just ad hominems. No one is being critical about any of his points. So it's very weird when I see all the hostility against him but no actual counter arguments.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#156

Post by fukusa » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 2:01 PM UTC

laichzeit0 wrote: post #116

striking wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means people are so tired of listening to self-interested politicians toe the party line that they're willing to elect a candidate solely based on how crazy his ideas are and how much he won't backpedal on them, even in the face of adversity. In terms of fearless leaders, he definitely is one. Of course, I also think his ideas are mostly inane and that within fifteen minutes of his inauguration he would have alrea…

Excuse my ignorance as I'm not American and perhaps miss all the nuances. - Wants to stop illegal immigration. Not immigration. Only illegal. i.e. people not paying taxes but living there undocumented - Non-citizens giving birth in USA and then automatically the baby is USA's problem until it dies - Tax reform that wants to stop corporate inversion and bring money back to USA (Google, Apple, etc.) - Wants a more comp…

Not sure if you have ever paid attention to politics but what politicians say is not what they usually do. Especially the claim: "Tax reform that wants to stop corporate inversion and bring money back to USA (Google, Apple, etc.)" is very unlikely as he himself is part of that system and so are his friends and stakeholders.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#157

Post by Retra » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 2:51 PM UTC

EdSharkey wrote: post #95

vacri wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I could create the replacement to the internet and destroy the current corporate powers in doing so. And despite this replacement's power, it'd be designed in a way that governments could never infringe on it. I just don't because I have a comfy job"? Oh, please.

You lack imagination! There are so many ways to deliver what the internet delivers today that you have not considered. I wouldn't even have to foresake our current software ecosystem built up around tcp and http. Keep your YouTube and Twitter for as long as you'd like.

The only thing worse that not knowing how to fix something is to know how to do it and be unwilling.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#158

Post by ddingus » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 2:56 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #102

ddingus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>I'm wondering how long before we have government-sanctioned libraries, languages, and chipsets that we may develop for. "You there! STOP!" "Huh?" "We've got you on record for bootstrapping, machine code, and compiler writing!" "so?" "That's a threat, and you are going to have to come with us and register." "Register for what?" "As a weapon. We need to know where you are and who you associate with..."

I doubt it will go that bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if the end result of the War on General Purpose Computing will be laws limiting access to turing-complete machines to licensed software engineers. For everyone else, playing with a compiler will be illegal.

That's mostly the scenario I was writing about.

Take that bit of dialog and plug in a smart kid making their own stuff...

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#159

Post by throwupaway1138 » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:53 PM UTC

EdSharkey wrote: post #109

kobayashi wrote: post #88

>Jade Helm Found the /r/conspiracy subscriber

That's dismissive and insulting. I don't visit Reddit, it's a huge distraction to me. This is the only tech news site I frequent because it's simple and I enjoy reading the comments for the most part. Jade Helm was extraordinary and just plain _weird_, I think it's okay to question it!

> to question it

That might have been the goal rather then the actual military turn around, a PR stunt, given the news coverage as can be inferred from the allusions in other comments.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#160

Post by ddingus » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #78

ddingus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>I'm wondering how long before we have government-sanctioned libraries, languages, and chipsets that we may develop for. "You there! STOP!" "Huh?" "We've got you on record for bootstrapping, machine code, and compiler writing!" "so?" "That's a threat, and you are going to have to come with us and register." "Register for what?" "As a weapon. We need to know where you are and who you associate with..."

Your hands are deadly weapons.

As is the brain. Just talking to someone, in what we consider an ordinary way today, could be trouble.