The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared • Hacker News Board

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#81

Post by vacri » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:03 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #8

walterbell wrote: post #2

KEI has a roundup of commentary on the TPP IP chapter, http://www.keionline.org/node/2335 A 6-min explainer video on TPP and ISDS, https://youtube.com/watch?v=AABOIcXZZwg HN discussion earlier today, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10359604 From the EFF article: > "One of the scariest parts of the TPP is that not only can you be made liable to fines and criminal penalties, but that any materials and implements u…

Ripping Blu-rays for personal use is copyright infringement in many jurisdictions. I'm not sure whether anyone's actually been prosecuted for it though.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Australia. Not too many years ago, format shifting (eg CD -> mp3) for personal use was declared legal by the courts here.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#82

Post by Asbostos » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:09 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #51

Asbostos wrote: post #34

Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? The economic advantages of that might outweigh any loses from tighter copyright, and I suspect was the carrot the US used to get all the copyright concessions. Everyone wants to export to the US but the US is traditionally too protectionist. Looking on the bright side of copyright. You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. You can always just make your own…

> Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? In one example, tariff reduction on some types of auto parts will move North American manufacturing jobs to Chinese factories who will be allowed to supply TPP member Japan, for export to North America. > You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. Some works are culturally significant, e.g. documentaries and historical fiction.

Without an American-centric worldview, is there anything wrong with that moving of manufacturing jobs? It seems to be better for overall good in the world. It also serves American consumers who may get products cheaper.

If we allow somebody else's property to dictate our culture, then we're already bound to the owner anyway. We already accept this with recently produced movies/music/etc. I wouldn't even call that culture, just paid-for passive entertainment much like paying for a ride at an amusement park. Once you've used it, all you're entitled to is your memories.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#83

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:10 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #51

Asbostos wrote: post #34

Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? The economic advantages of that might outweigh any loses from tighter copyright, and I suspect was the carrot the US used to get all the copyright concessions. Everyone wants to export to the US but the US is traditionally too protectionist. Looking on the bright side of copyright. You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. You can always just make your own…

> Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? In one example, tariff reduction on some types of auto parts will move North American manufacturing jobs to Chinese factories who will be allowed to supply TPP member Japan, for export to North America. > You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. Some works are culturally significant, e.g. documentaries and historical fiction.

[deleted]

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#84

Post by DanBC » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:26 AM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #82

walterbell wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weren't there also thousands of tariffs removed? In one example, tariff reduction on some types of auto parts will move North American manufacturing jobs to Chinese factories who will be allowed to supply TPP member Japan, for export to North America. > You never have to use somebody else's copyright work. Some works are culturally significant, e.g. documentaries and historical fiction.

Without an American-centric worldview, is there anything wrong with that moving of manufacturing jobs? It seems to be better for overall good in the world. It also serves American consumers who may get products cheaper. If we allow somebody else's property to dictate our culture, then we're already bound to the owner anyway. We already accept this with recently produced movies/music/etc. I wouldn't even call that cul…

Cheaper products come with worker exploitation.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#85

Post by xvf33 » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:32 AM UTC

Revolt of stfu

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#86

Post by xvf33 » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:32 AM UTC

Revolt of stfu

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#87

Post by Asbostos » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:49 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #84

Asbostos wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without an American-centric worldview, is there anything wrong with that moving of manufacturing jobs? It seems to be better for overall good in the world. It also serves American consumers who may get products cheaper. If we allow somebody else's property to dictate our culture, then we're already bound to the owner anyway. We already accept this with recently produced movies/music/etc. I wouldn't even call that cul…

Cheaper products come with worker exploitation.

That implies the whole concept of developing nations is bad and we should try to prevent it. All of them have worker exploitation to some extent. Don't forget even exploited workers still choose where to work. They're not slaves. Furthermore, tariffs aren't introduced to protect foreign workers. That really isn't the reason for tariffs.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#88

Post by kobayashi » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 5:12 AM UTC

>Jade Helm

Found the /r/conspiracy subscriber

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#89

Post by mercurial » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 5:18 AM UTC

bediger4000 wrote: post #29

3pt14159 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the fact of the matter is that every person is a rights holder. I'm a rights holder of this comment. You are a rights holder of your family pictures. It is a tricky balancing act.

Sure, technically anyone who creates something in tangible form is a "rightsholder". But the process for enforcing those rights is beyond most of us US citizens, rather like disputing a patent lawsuit is beyond most small companies. The costs of specialist attorneys put the enforcement beyond reach for all but the rich and large corporations. You called out the problem yourself with the "tricky balancing act". Balanc…

In practice, it's Animal Farm: all animals are rightsholders, but some animals hold more rights than others.

Re: The Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared

#90

Post by mirimir » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 5:22 AM UTC

EdSharkey wrote: post #37

To me, code is much more of a long term threat to the power structure than intellectual property theft is. I'm wondering how long before we have government-sanctioned libraries, languages, and chipsets that we may develop for. I see this TPP as power consolidating ahead of any looming citizen revolt in order to chop it off at the knees. It's very weird and awesome to watch. I do chuckle about all this though because…

Time's a wastin' ;)

I think that we need something like IPFS, which connects via covert channels, and is fully deniable. With ubiquitous HD video, download bandwidth would be trivial, even with ~1% signal/carrier. Upload bandwidth would be harder to hide.