Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care • Hacker News Board

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#51

Post by pcthrowaway » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

pstuart wrote: post #38

werber wrote: post #28

I was surprised the article didn't mention Ayahuasca, maybe the original source did. I know a few people that used it to get off heroin for good after going through several Regan-relapse cycles.

Which is effectively DMT.

Not exactly. Ayahuasca actually refers to the vine Banisteriopsis caapi, which is a powerful MAOI, but contains no DMT.

Traditional preparations often (but not always) contain other components which contain DMT, the effect of which is normally metabolized by a mitochondrial enzyme called monoamine oxidase. Since the ayahuasca vine inhibits the activity of monoamine oxidase, a preparation of ingested DMT taken with, or after, an MAOI will allow the DMT to reach the brain.

The vine taken on its own, however, has an intense effect which is said to be mildly psychedelic, and a preparation of just the ayahuasca vine qualifies as ayahuasca.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#52

Post by MichaelGG » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:39 PM UTC

Bjartr wrote: post #49

mistermann wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh this sounds like exactly what was wrong with the early LSD promoters. Psychedelics are the mythical "love bomb"? I do not think the evidence supports that. We really don't have that much evidence - at the one Uni they'd done what, 500 trials with mushrooms over 10 years? It's obviously not guaranteed to bring world peace, but I honestly think it could make a huuuuuge portion of the public wake up and start askin…

>> I do not think the evidence supports that. > We really don't have that much evidence So you agree with him then.

I'm saying what little evidence we have (mainly that there are many LSD users and they span quite a bit of viewpoints) does not support the idea that they'll all become "love bombed" messengers for peace or whatever. My implication being that the more evidence we get, the more we'll find out that LSD doesn't just deliver some external value like world peace but enhances ideas already in one's mind.

He's saying there's not enough evidence to tell. But with the implication that once we do have evidence, it'll show that LSD really does "love bomb" people.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#53

Post by Zelphyr » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:39 PM UTC

nmrm2 wrote: post #5

TA: "The fact that the effects last beyond the time that you take the medication -- that's really a new paradigm in psychiatry." I have no doubt that psychedelics are capable of producing lasting changes in behaviors, habits, or outlooks. Actually, I'd be surprised if that particular point is at all controversial. However, prespcribing a psychedlic that could have lasting impacts on a person for "reasons we don't und…

SSRI's have impacts (albeit not as long lasting) for reasons we don't understand yet they get dolled out like bread. Sure, you don't see visions while taking them but the side effects are no less profound. After years of personal experience with them I think they're WAY over prescribed. But the fact that they're legal at all, to me, is justification for legalizing psychedelics for research at the very least.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#54

Post by kleer001 » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:40 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #18

eivarv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the "spiritual effect" of cancer? And just how do you believe that psychedelics "could bring remission to [cancer's] physical manifestation"?

Having cancer fucking sucks. Taking psychedelics might help it suck less.

From what I understand they do help with the anxiety of end of life care.

What I think happens is that you take mushrooms/LSD for the first time in that condition and then you fully realize the size and scope of yourself and the universe, and get the giggles, and everything's a little easier to take.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/how-psychedelic-d...

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#55

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:43 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #2

At the very least psychedelics should be a legitimate subject of serious inquiry in the fields of neuroscience and psychiatry.

[deleted]

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#56

Post by chestervonwinch » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:44 PM UTC

Psychedelics are a lot like taking a vacation. You may have an experience which will impact your life in some (perhaps significantly better or worse) way. You may gain new perspectives on life. You may gain insight into yourself and travel companions. You may develop an ugly tendency to be that annoying person who always talks about their trip to ___ and always find a way to interject it into conversations.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#57

Post by DennisP » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:46 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #43

DennisP wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the interviewee, for vulnerability to serious negative outcomes from psychedelic therapies.

Since we don't have reliable screening for basic mental illnesses, I find it implausible that we have "reliable" screening for these kinds of vulnerabilities. I must be missing something; any thoughts?

It's not my specialty, I was just pointing out something mentioned in the article, by a researcher in the area. If you have references that contradict his claim, I'd be interested in seeing them.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#58

Post by Alex3917 » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:52 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #43

DennisP wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the interviewee, for vulnerability to serious negative outcomes from psychedelic therapies.

Since we don't have reliable screening for basic mental illnesses, I find it implausible that we have "reliable" screening for these kinds of vulnerabilities. I must be missing something; any thoughts?

> I must be missing something; any thoughts?

Since the beginning of the era of modern psychedelic research, no one has developed any serious longterm mental illness as the result of taking psychedelics in a research setting. And this is out of thousands of people.

I think part of the reason is that it's actually a lot easier to determine if someone is predisposed to mental illness than it actually is to determine if the person sitting in front of you has a mental illness. E.g. if one of your parents was bipolar or you had a relative who committed suicide then you'd be immediately excluded from any trial. And because they are only doing this research on adults, this means that participants would have all had 20+ years to figure out if their parents have signs of mental illness or whatever.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#59

Post by MichaelGG » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:52 PM UTC

Taek wrote: post #48

DanBC wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One episode of psychosis is not a life long psychotic illness. When people say "psychedelics cause mental illness" that could mean: * Someone with no underlying mental illness takes a few doses of LSD and is left with a life long psychotic illness * Someone with no underlying mental illness regularly takes huge doses of LSD, and ends up with a life long psychotic illness * Someone with underlying mental illness has t…

What if doctors could prescribe drugs for recreational reasons? Then you are getting them from a setting where can be informed about the dangers, and a professional can tell you if you have personal risk factors (for example, I have a friend with a heart condition who is at very high risk of heart attack under the influence of cocaine). And then the professionals can help measure dependency and long term effects, and…

No, doctors should have less power. It's absolutely embarrassing and disgusting that individuals must seek approval of another person just to get permission to buy certain medicines. Outside of things that require coordination (like antibiotics), there should be no prescription requirements. (There may need to be waivers and a statement of understanding before purchasing things, sure.)

Doctors already regulate recreational and personal-enhancement via their strangehold on opiates and stimulants. We don't need to further this system.

Re: Psychedelics Could Trigger A 'Paradigm Shift' In Mental Health Care

#60

Post by MichaelGG » Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:56 PM UTC

chestervonwinch wrote: post #56

Psychedelics are a lot like taking a vacation. You may have an experience which will impact your life in some (perhaps significantly better or worse) way. You may gain new perspectives on life. You may gain insight into yourself and travel companions. You may develop an ugly tendency to be that annoying person who always talks about their trip to ___ and always find a way to interject it into conversations.

That's a risk for just about anything that's interesting. Reading up on a new (to you) philosophy. Finding a new (to you) diet, or exercise or yoga. Learning a new programming paradigm. And on and on. People naturally want to share experiences they found exciting/stimulating/useful/etc. I don't think that really provides much judgement or insight into whether a specific activity tends to be good or bad.