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A new approach to web performance

ampproject.org

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Re: A new approach to web performance

#81

Post by insanebits »

TLDR; I mostly agree with monopoly idea.

We had WML for mobile devices before mobile devices were powerful enough to render HTML. Then we got smartphones better than my computer bought 5 years ago. AMP in my oppinion is a step back, yes you can do a lot of things in CSS. But in reality there are cases where it needs to happen dynamically. For example: javascript input validation, you cannot validate data using CSS. Are we then going to reinvent Javascript using some new fancy name?. Also, how about backwards compatibility(IE7-8 I'm looking at you)?

Those companys could spend their resources on better things, like implementing ways to load viewport dependent images(it seems it's already done using picture tag). Because multimedia takes huge chunk of the website.

And like always there are ways to write performant websites using existing technology and even more ways to write slow websites using all the "bleeding edge" technology. It's up to the developer mostly.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#83

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

spankalee wrote: post #74
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #66

This isn't an HTML subset, it's some freakish pseudo-HTML JS library weirdness. Why not define an actual subset of HTML? You know, like XHTML Strict Mode? Why must everything be a JavaScript library?!

It _is_ an HTML (and CSS) subset. JavaScript is used to implement custom elements, like amp-image. That's just how custom elements work.

It's not a subset, it's not a superset. It lacks some HTML things and adds new ones.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#84

Post by coldtea »

ducuboy wrote: post #59
ducuboy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMP is just broken HTML, hardly a standard. https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.c...

What about RSS? That offered good performance, was widely adopted and was a real standard working for both publishers and consumers. Remember who actually killed it? Yeah, that was also Google.. by discontinuing their Reader - a very good tool with lots of users but no revenue. That's how much open standards matter. Too bad @aaronsw is not around anymore, he would have said something about AMP.

>Remember who actually killed it? Yeah, that was also Google.. by discontinuing their Reader - a very good tool with lots of users but no revenue.

If a single company killing a sigle product could kill RSS, then it wasn't that alive in the first place.

The fact is, after 10 years of RSS being available in blogs, news sites and elsewhere, Reader still had an insignificant number of users in the web scale of things. A few tens of millions (all estimates put it in the low tens, like 20 to 40 millions).

Re: A new approach to web performance

#86

Post by yoodenvranx »

joosters wrote: post #20

I hate it when pages suddenly change their scroll position, it makes reading the site painful. So any project that aims to fix this gets my approval! One more pet peeve of mine: websites with giant non-scrolling banners at the top of the page. Thanks for wasting my screen space just so you can show your stupid website logo. As well as the pixel wastage, half the sites can't even make their banner stay still, it wobbl…

> I hate it when pages suddenly change their scroll position

This problem gets worse and worse :(

I also hate the trend to forcefully remap my old trusty middle mouse click from "open link in new tab" to "open link in current tab" via javascript.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#87

Post by eloisant »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #63
ducuboy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about RSS? That offered good performance, was widely adopted and was a real standard working for both publishers and consumers. Remember who actually killed it? Yeah, that was also Google.. by discontinuing their Reader - a very good tool with lots of users but no revenue. That's how much open standards matter. Too bad @aaronsw is not around anymore, he would have said something about AMP.

I was as annoyed as the next person when Google killed Reader but, to be honest, RSS was killed off for typical users way before that when browser manufacturers dropped/hid support for it. I still use RSS every day, as do many of our customers.

Not just browsers, but Facebook and Twitter both killed their RSS feed at some point.

That's much worse than Google killing Reader, because reader is just a reader, you can still switch to a different one. If the source doesn't provide an RSS feed, there's not much you can do.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#88

Post by eloisant »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #63
ducuboy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about RSS? That offered good performance, was widely adopted and was a real standard working for both publishers and consumers. Remember who actually killed it? Yeah, that was also Google.. by discontinuing their Reader - a very good tool with lots of users but no revenue. That's how much open standards matter. Too bad @aaronsw is not around anymore, he would have said something about AMP.

I was as annoyed as the next person when Google killed Reader but, to be honest, RSS was killed off for typical users way before that when browser manufacturers dropped/hid support for it. I still use RSS every day, as do many of our customers.

Not just browsers, but Facebook and Twitter both killed their RSS feed at some point.

That's much worse than Google killing Reader, because reader is just a reader, you can still switch to a different one. If the source doesn't provide an RSS feed, there's not much you can do.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#89

Post by mattlutze »

stdbrouw wrote: post #4
manigandham wrote: post #2

What's sad is that this is just optimized HTML + CDN packaged up by Google and heralded as some big innovation. If publishers spent a few hours they could make extremely lightweight pages too (even with media and ads). Here's an AMP page: https://amp.gstatic.com/v/mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/us/r...

Well, most publishers actually use fairly optimized HTML/CSS and most publishers use a CDN. But there's only so much you can do if you don't want to get rid of those 5 ad networks, 7 analytics services, 2 sidebars and just generally a whole bunch of crap that has nothing to do with the article. The innovation of Facebook instant articles and AMP isn't technical, it's that they have been able to convince publishers th…

The search engines just need to penalize sites or result pages that have all these piles of bloat in them if they want to be a forcing function in the mobile web getting quicker. Push crappy experiences lower in the results and you can be sure news and aggregator sites will clean up their act.

That Google et. al. are publishing a parallel framework to HTML indicates their goal is not just making mobile web faster, but in controlling that experience, to whatever end they may have in mind.

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