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A new approach to web performance

ampproject.org

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Re: A new approach to web performance

#51

Post by pjc50 »

microtonal wrote: post #18
bshimmin wrote: post #5

"With this in mind we made the tough decision that AMP HTML documents would not include any author-written JavaScript, nor any third-party scripts." Quite a bold decision there! Ultimately this will fail, of course, because the vast majority of sites that attempt to make money will need third-party scripts in some form. A much better move would be to try and produce a standard which third-party library authors could…

Quite a bold decision there! Ultimately this will fail, of course, because the vast majority of sites that attempt to make money will need third-party scripts in some form. I don't think it will necessarily fail, if AMP has a good ad story. I think some publishers realize that ad blocking is taking off in an accelerated pace since iOS 9. If they have to choose between a universe between no ad revenue (because ad bloc…

"Google is not yet sure exactly how advertising will work within AMP" says that article.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#52

Post by 0x4a42 »

odiroot wrote: post #30
alkonaut wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to forget that html isn't the end product, the end result is lit pixels on some screen (usually). If we send json then that needs to be converted to html and that html needs to be layout and rendered. If we send html we just skip the first step. Displaying a web page isn't "free" for the client just because it's html. The question is this: what kind of overhead is a template rendering task (in js) for a mod…

Crazy thought: detect viewport size on first load and serve pre-rendered PNGs to skip the rendering on client part. Someone probably already developed that.

With this method the content wouldn't be accessible to user agents that are coupled to helpers for persons with disabilities.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#53

Post by idonthaveaname »

joosters wrote: post #20

I hate it when pages suddenly change their scroll position, it makes reading the site painful. So any project that aims to fix this gets my approval! One more pet peeve of mine: websites with giant non-scrolling banners at the top of the page. Thanks for wasting my screen space just so you can show your stupid website logo. As well as the pixel wastage, half the sites can't even make their banner stay still, it wobbl…

All of those problems are design issues (in the sense of overall application/site design). They can "easily" be solved by not designing the site to work that way. Sites only work that way because site developers (the whole team) choose to do it and then implement a solution to achieve it.

The specs for the various languages and the guidelines on their "best use" already define NOT doing any of those things either by dint of it not being built-in behavior or by already actively recommending against it. There's no need to follow a 2nd, proprietary specification to do what is already the standard.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#54

Post by flipp3r »

ducuboy wrote: post #43
ducuboy wrote: post #38

What annoys me is how Google is selling this project. At least Facebook is honest about their Instant Articles. This isn't an "open standard" guys, and it's not about performance! It's about the single piece of js that's allowed on AMP pages and the amp-tags such as and that only Google controls. Performance is just the story they are selling in exchange of absolute control of the Web. After all, any publisher can ea…

AMP is just broken HTML, hardly a standard. https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.c...

I think this tweet from the AML project lead sums up pretty well how much they thought about standards

https://twitter.com/cramforce/status/651769139204259840

Re: A new approach to web performance

#55

Post by pjmlp »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #44
Gigablah wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what one of the Blogger templates does, and I've seen people on HN complain about having to see an AJAX spinner just to load a blog.

Yeah, I'm such a complainer too. Blogs are one of the last places you should ever see such a spinner because they're just static content with sidebars. There should be little to none client-side rendering involved. And the spinner on Blogger is only a (very visible) symptom of the bigger problem - the whole site is incredibly slow and resource heavy.

I can understand interactive documents like notebooks (IPython and such) and games, for anything else just give me HTML + CSS.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#58

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

ducuboy wrote: post #43
ducuboy wrote: post #38

What annoys me is how Google is selling this project. At least Facebook is honest about their Instant Articles. This isn't an "open standard" guys, and it's not about performance! It's about the single piece of js that's allowed on AMP pages and the amp-tags such as and that only Google controls. Performance is just the story they are selling in exchange of absolute control of the Web. After all, any publisher can ea…

AMP is just broken HTML, hardly a standard. https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.c...

I don't understand why they don't just use data-* attributes and stay valid.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#59

Post by ducuboy »

ducuboy wrote: post #43
ducuboy wrote: post #38

What annoys me is how Google is selling this project. At least Facebook is honest about their Instant Articles. This isn't an "open standard" guys, and it's not about performance! It's about the single piece of js that's allowed on AMP pages and the amp-tags such as and that only Google controls. Performance is just the story they are selling in exchange of absolute control of the Web. After all, any publisher can ea…

AMP is just broken HTML, hardly a standard. https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.c...

What about RSS? That offered good performance, was widely adopted and was a real standard working for both publishers and consumers.

Remember who actually killed it? Yeah, that was also Google.. by discontinuing their Reader - a very good tool with lots of users but no revenue. That's how much open standards matter. Too bad @aaronsw is not around anymore, he would have said something about AMP.

Re: A new approach to web performance

#60

Post by zenocon »

manigandham wrote: post #24
stdbrouw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most publishers actually use fairly optimized HTML/CSS and most publishers use a CDN. But there's only so much you can do if you don't want to get rid of those 5 ad networks, 7 analytics services, 2 sidebars and just generally a whole bunch of crap that has nothing to do with the article. The innovation of Facebook instant articles and AMP isn't technical, it's that they have been able to convince publishers th…

I disagree - most publishers I've seen (including large and mid-level) have some of the most bloated HTML with megabytes(!) of javascript and CSS just for rendering + all the other stuff you mentioned. They are definitely not optimized. I dont think there is any innovation at all with either Facebook or Google, it's all about keeping the user on their service longer and by hosting the content themselves, they increas…

> I disagree - most publishers I've seen (including large and mid-level) have some of the most bloated HTML with megabytes(!) of javascript and CSS just for rendering + all the other stuff you mentioned. They are definitely not optimized.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/01/business/cost-...

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