The two worst thing ever happened to earth in one ideology. Congratulations!
Out of interest, what two worst things are you referring to?
Libertarian communism
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Re: Libertarian communism
#22The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?
Well I guess because communism, unlike nazism, doesn't have hatred hardcoded in ideology. On the other hand there is difference between theory and practice, you can have any ideological system, but if you depend on totalitarian dictator everything can fall apart - You depend on mood of that person/party. Just guessing ;-)
Well I guess because communism, unlike nazism, doesn't have hatred hardcoded in ideology.
Bullshit.
That the hatred is on the much more versatile axis of class instead of race doesn't make it any less vile. You don't rack up a 20th century record of a bare minimum of 100 million slaughtered without exercising a lot of hatred.
Re: Libertarian communism
#23The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?
That was state socialism, not a true communist society. Any form of repression, coercion and control are condemned by anarchists / libertarian socialists. The USSR was certainly a state which was did of that. The reason why the USSR was trumpeted as socialist was that it suited both sides' propaganda to do so. For the Americans, to vilify socialism, and for the Russians to give their rule the appearance of genuine so…
"The rise of communism in China, although violent and of the state-socialist kind, also brought hundreds of millions out of poverty."
Indeed, absolute world poverty has halved over the last 30 years because of state-socialism. Oops sorry, it was capitalism that halved poverty, not socialism. What a mistake to make!
Re: Libertarian communism
#24The two worst thing ever happened to earth in one ideology. Congratulations!
To be clear this libertarianism has nothing to do with libertarianism as it's called in the USA, which essentially is an extreme protector of individual property rights.
Re: Libertarian communism
#25The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?
Well I guess because communism, unlike nazism, doesn't have hatred hardcoded in ideology. On the other hand there is difference between theory and practice, you can have any ideological system, but if you depend on totalitarian dictator everything can fall apart - You depend on mood of that person/party. Just guessing ;-)
Fascism: kill millions of poor people for their race.
Communism: kill millions of poor people for their politics.
Fascism and communism are the same thing, if you define them by how many poor people they torture and murder.
Re: Libertarian communism
#26The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?
Communism has executed exactly 0 people. Communism is just an economic system, don't confuse it with the totalitarian dictators who may have used it. America has murdered, tortured, and committed genocide and terrorism against countless people, but that's not directly related to the economic system.
Capitalism has been responsible for slavery, sweatshops, child labor, pollution, etc. On the other hand, it also brought us the iPhone, so it's not all bad ;)
Re: Libertarian communism
#27The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?
How many people have died under capitalism?
Everybody eventually dies under all these systems.
How many people were executed by organs of the state, including prematurely dying in forced labor camps, is a much more relevant metric.
Re: Libertarian communism
#28For a great and concise introduction to Libertarian Socialism here is a classic Noam Chomsky lecture from 1979 called The Government of the Future, in which he gives a justification for Libertarian Socialism, or Anarchism, as the natural and correct form of government for advanced industrial society from the classical liberal ideals of the enlightenment. He also compares the competing economic and social ideologies,…
Thanks for the link! Do you have a similar great and concise introduction to Nazism or other related extremist totalitarian ideologies?
Well one of the best is Hannah Arendt's "The Origins of Totalitarianism".
Also worth looking at the concept of inverted totalitarianism, by Sheldon Wolin.
Re: Libertarian communism
#29The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?
That was state socialism, not a true communist society. Any form of repression, coercion and control are condemned by anarchists / libertarian socialists. The USSR was certainly a state which was did of that. The reason why the USSR was trumpeted as socialist was that it suited both sides' propaganda to do so. For the Americans, to vilify socialism, and for the Russians to give their rule the appearance of genuine so…
"The rise of communism in China, although violent and of the state-socialist kind, also brought hundreds of millions out of poverty. " - Modern China's rise has come Capitalism, and liberalisation of the markets.
Before the market reforms china, wasn't... great.
Re: Libertarian communism
#30[deleted]