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Libertarian communism

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11–20 of 90 posts

Re: Libertarian communism

#11
post #6

The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?

How many people have died under capitalism?

Re: Libertarian communism

#12
post #6

The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?

That was state socialism, not a true communist society. Any form of repression, coercion and control are condemned by anarchists / libertarian socialists. The USSR was certainly a state which was did of that.

The reason why the USSR was trumpeted as socialist was that it suited both sides' propaganda to do so. For the Americans, to vilify socialism, and for the Russians to give their rule the appearance of genuine socialism. When both of the major propoganda systems in the world agree on something it's bound to become a popular conception.

But let us not also forget that hundreds of millions starved in non-communist India, which suffered terrible famines up to 1948.

South and Central America was a horror chamber throughout the 1950's-1980's under violent brutal capitalist dictatorships supported by the USA. Many Asian countries too.

The rise of communism in China, although violent and of the state-socialist kind, also brought hundreds of millions out of poverty.

Re: Libertarian communism

#13
I have read the whole thing and I was really surprised that they didn't mention anything about individualism or non-authoritarian decentralized governance given the "libertarian" label in their name and unless I'm mistaken, they sound more collectivist-leaning than individualist-leaning and this is very troubling esp. for communists as they tend historically to favor heavy-handed measures to reach or realize their political goals even if it means to oppress and intimidate their opponents.

BTW: I'm a leftie myself but very skeptical of collectivists and statists whether on the right or the left.

Re: Libertarian communism

#14
post #6

The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?

The communist ideology resulted in that in the same sense that the capitalist ideology resulted in the genocide of Native Americans, the creation of largest imprisoned population in the world, and centuries of slavery.

Or maybe we're misrepresenting things a bit. I've never read a thing about having to kill 100 million working class people in any of the books about communism and anarchism I read. plenty of communist states survived without forgetting to feed their own people.

Re: Libertarian communism

#15
post #6

The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?

Well I guess because communism, unlike nazism, doesn't have hatred hardcoded in ideology.

On the other hand there is difference between theory and practice, you can have any ideological system, but if you depend on totalitarian dictator everything can fall apart - You depend on mood of that person/party.

Just guessing ;-)

Re: Libertarian communism

#16
post #6

The communist ideology resulted in the torture/execution/starvation of, what, 100 million working-class people? People don't go about saying "I'm a fascist, let's give it another go, maybe it will work this time, sorry about the millions of dead children". So why do people think it's OK to say they're a communist?

That was state socialism, not a true communist society. Any form of repression, coercion and control are condemned by anarchists / libertarian socialists. The USSR was certainly a state which was did of that. The reason why the USSR was trumpeted as socialist was that it suited both sides' propaganda to do so. For the Americans, to vilify socialism, and for the Russians to give their rule the appearance of genuine so…

"That was state socialism, not a true communist society."

Ah. the "No true Scotsman fallacy". It would be funny it it weren't for the countless millions of tortured and murdered women, children, peasants...

Re: Libertarian communism

#17

For a great and concise introduction to Libertarian Socialism here is a classic Noam Chomsky lecture from 1979 called The Government of the Future, in which he gives a justification for Libertarian Socialism, or Anarchism, as the natural and correct form of government for advanced industrial society from the classical liberal ideals of the enlightenment. He also compares the competing economic and social ideologies,…

Thanks for the link!

Do you have a similar great and concise introduction to Nazism or other related extremist totalitarian ideologies?

Re: Libertarian communism

#19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was state socialism, not a true communist society. Any form of repression, coercion and control are condemned by anarchists / libertarian socialists. The USSR was certainly a state which was did of that. The reason why the USSR was trumpeted as socialist was that it suited both sides' propaganda to do so. For the Americans, to vilify socialism, and for the Russians to give their rule the appearance of genuine so…

"That was state socialism, not a true communist society." Ah. the "No true Scotsman fallacy". It would be funny it it weren't for the countless millions of tortured and murdered women, children, peasants...

It's not funny. It's also got nothing to do with Libertarian socialism, which is simply a a democratic economic system. The USSR was a system with concentrated power which directed from above.

Right wing Marxists such as Bolsheviks have always had deep divides with left wing Marxists and anarchists.

Re: Libertarian communism

#20

> "Those of us with nothing to sell but our labour power" This is the weirdest thing about the dichotomy of Communism's popular resurgence in tech circles. In literal terms, our 'labour power' is fingers on a keyboard. Doesn't the real value in our work come from our ideas ? Technology is a lever for ideas, and that lever can be exploited by creativity in a way that few other areas of human endeavor can match. So, if…

I'd argue, in this regard, there is nothing qualitatively different about being an IT worker compared to any other occupation or any other time under capitalism. Marx never considered labour power to be a purely physical act. Otherwise technology alone would be a source of value, too. Of course, we are the only source of value because of our innate creativity, our ideas; our hands or interaction with others, merely sets it in motion.
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