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Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

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Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is indeed speculation, but at least anecdotal, not totally unfunded http://www.interactually.com/linkedin-creepiest-social-netwo... http://imonlinkedinnowwhat.com/2009/09/14/linkedin-people-yo... there are quite a few instances of weird guess about the people you might know suggestions of course the actual source is kept as one of their best secrets.

Neither of those links you shared provided any evidence whatsoever for LinkedIn and Facebook having a secret bidirectional data sharing relationship. The far more intelligent explanation is that suggestions are, as LinkedIn repeatedly emphasizes, based on imported contacts. Note that even if you don't import contacts, the other person might have. Try using Occam's razor before jumping to unprofitable conspiracy theor…

> Again, why on earth do you think Facebook would voluntarily share data with Facebook?

Because why not? Facebook isn't really competing with LinkedIn right now - the latter doesn't try to enter private life, and the former doesn't really touch work life much. Both could benefit from sharing data with each other - from better recommendations to creation of shadow profiles. I don't see how this is an unreasonable theory.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#252
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That attitude changes when you get death threats sent to your email that mention your home address because your dad had a business disagreed with an unstable person. Yeah, that happens irl sometimes. The scary thing is that you don't know who will turn out to be unstable, and it can be someone you never even interact with who is just trying to use you to get under somebody else's skin.

Ouch. That sucks :(. Still, problematic as it is, that's just bad luck. We can't all live in fear of evil strangers sending death threats to us. There is no way a normal person can reasonably protect themselves from an attack like this targeted personally. We need to empower the police to deal better with such cases.

> Still, problematic as it is, that's just bad luck. We can't all live in fear of evil strangers sending death threats to us. There is no way a normal person can reasonably protect themselves from an attack like this targeted personally.

I disagree. Protection of yourself is a multi-angle approach.

One of the very practical ways to not live in fear of evil strangers is to practice good online anonimity, pseudonymity and/or compartmentalisation.

Back when I first got regular Internet access in 1998, this was a no-brainer. Almost everybody did it, and even if you slipped up at first, it was often possible to just cover some tracks and start over with a new nickname.

I walked the web like that for years, until modern Internet made it a lot harder. I was forced to make some hard choices about my own privacy (and thereby automatically about other people's privacy too) versus the ability to stay in contact with certain (groups of) friends. Not for one-to-one messages, email still works fine for that in principle, and everybody still uses it. It's the group communications that were the real issue, forcing very hard choices on people that actually want to choose privacy. But I digress.

The point is, simple precautions like this used to be no harder than simple real-life precautions such as locking your door and not leaving your phone or wallet on the bar counter as you go to the toilet. Simple common-sense things such as not writing your street address on your key-chain label. Or in cases of "bad luck", if some creepy guy is being creepy, being able to safely tell the bartender, paying attention that he doesn't see where you're going as you leave, letting a trusted friend know where you are, etc.

No it doesn't offer 100% protection, but it helps a lot! Real-life precautions like the above are the "way a normal person can reasonably protect themselves" from these types of real-life attacks and threats.

Nobody, corporation or government, would consider making such real-life precautions harder to follow. Or if a corporation would leverage network-effect to turn such a real-life precaution into a social handicap or taboo, people would quickly ask themselves "wait, is this really what we want?", and as soon as the first victims fell, the corp would get a lot of flak for it.

I believe we should allow people to be able to afford the same sorts of easy-to-follow on line precautions, without forcing people to make the awkward choice between privacy (and sometimes safety) and partaking in social life without too much inconvenience to themselves, and importantly, their friends too.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#253
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not true historically. I don't know what their privacy policies are now, but they have a track record of changing them with very little fanfare.

They have responded to the criticism of their historical behavior and now only make changes with quite a bit of fanfare. They haven't done anything overtly evil related to privacy in a while.

> They have responded to the criticism of their historical behavior and now only make changes with quite a bit of fanfare. They haven't done anything overtly evil related to privacy in a while.

That's great. Are you willing to risk your physical safety on this?

Should other people be willing to risk theirs? If not, what if they are part of your real-life social circle, but because of this they cannot join the private FB group-chat thing that happens to be the main mode of communication for this social group? What if they might have reservations discussing their reasons not being able to join?

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch. That sucks :(. Still, problematic as it is, that's just bad luck. We can't all live in fear of evil strangers sending death threats to us. There is no way a normal person can reasonably protect themselves from an attack like this targeted personally. We need to empower the police to deal better with such cases.

> Still, problematic as it is, that's just bad luck. We can't all live in fear of evil strangers sending death threats to us. There is no way a normal person can reasonably protect themselves from an attack like this targeted personally. I disagree. Protection of yourself is a multi-angle approach. One of the very practical ways to not live in fear of evil strangers is to practice good online anonimity, pseudonymity…

I get it, but I think your examples are not equivalent. I agree that the real-life precautions you mentioned are easy to follow and important. But the equivalent of those on-line would be: not sharing your passwords (especially to bank and e-mail), not posting your home address on public forums, telling your trusted friend you're off-line so if they see any activity from you it means you've been hacked, etc.

The real-life equivalents to the on-line precautions you've mentioned would be not telling anyone your name, wearing masks in public, not leaving any trail of your activities, and relocating to another town if anyone accidentally discovered what's your first name.

Basically, I don't believe dangers on the Internet warrant such precautions for general population.

I also first went on-line around 1998 and in my part of the world, people were just playing around. Nicknames were created not because one needed them, but because mostly nobody asked for real names.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My stepson tried to stay off Facebook. But then he started missing parties, not being part of evening conversations, had difficulties with groups at school, was missing out on his theatre group. If you just ... stop ... you may find your social circle leaving you behind.

My sibling comment here is being downvoted for saying he needs closer friends. Maybe that's blunt, but if he is unable to maintain friendships without FB, then something is going on there that shouldn't just be accepted as normal. And, if what you're saying is universally true for kids, or even nearly so, then I'd say that we (collectively, as adults) have failed them in strolling hand-in-hand with them into a world…

It's getting downvoted because they jumped from "he was missing out on party invites and facebook conversations" to "he can't maintain friendships and should get new friends".

It's a bit extreme of a position.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#256

One of the best commentaries I've seen on the matter of "authentic" or "real" names policies comes from Yonatan Zunger, chief architect of Google's Google+ social network. I've had plenty of disagreement with Google and Yonatan over many aspects of G+, and have given both the company and him much grief on multiple counts, including Real Names (Google's varient of Facebook's policy), though I'll also note that Yonatan…

FWIW, despite the "chief architect" title, IIRC Yonatan Zunger didn't actually join the G+ project until well after the initial launch. That is to say, the real name policy predated his involvement. I suspect he was always opposed to it.

I suspect that myself, and there's a discussion I've had with him since.

As with other of his observations on human behavior generally, Yonatan's take here is both perceptive and nuanced. I have discussed with him (on G+) the point that it took so long for him to state this, his reponse being that Google itself never suggested he shouldn't, but that he wrote this when he felt the time was right. My sense is that there's self-censorship going on, and yes, I self-censor myself (under various identities, for various reasons).

Regardless of when he joined the project, Yonatan's used G+ heavily over the past four years or so and seems to have a pretty good sense of its strengths and weaknesses.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#257

One of the best commentaries I've seen on the matter of "authentic" or "real" names policies comes from Yonatan Zunger, chief architect of Google's Google+ social network. I've had plenty of disagreement with Google and Yonatan over many aspects of G+, and have given both the company and him much grief on multiple counts, including Real Names (Google's varient of Facebook's policy), though I'll also note that Yonatan…

Not to trivialize his opinion, but I always thought it was a wide spread notion that not allowing anonymity will lead to only "politically correct" or "harmless" opinions to surface. I made the same argument when one of the Norwegian newspapers I somewhat read regularly (online) started requiring full names in the comments sections. The comments sections are now completely boring and predictable, and any really impor…

The "Facebookification" of public discussion -- steering to safe topics and views -- is one that's been noted.

There are reasons I use this identity for my own more probing (though not most provocative) commentary.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sibling comment here is being downvoted for saying he needs closer friends. Maybe that's blunt, but if he is unable to maintain friendships without FB, then something is going on there that shouldn't just be accepted as normal. And, if what you're saying is universally true for kids, or even nearly so, then I'd say that we (collectively, as adults) have failed them in strolling hand-in-hand with them into a world…

It's getting downvoted because they jumped from "he was missing out on party invites and facebook conversations" to "he can't maintain friendships and should get new friends". It's a bit extreme of a position.

Well, I don't think he/she said "he can"t maintain friendships". The suggestion was that he needed closer friends.

And, I think it's reasonable to question how close his friendships are if they are dependent on Facebook.

But, that's probably true of society in general, wherein we seem to be trading quantity for quality where personal relationships are concerned. And the generation coming up now has almost no reference point as to any other way.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can have different arguments - especially for different scenarios. If it really is your life at risk, dont share on Facebook or online. Otherwise, use privacy controls. What am I missing?

"Political dissidents and abuse victims can't safely use Facebook" is the problem we're discussing. I take it your solution is "political dissidents and abuse victims shouldn't be using the internet at all"?

If using your real name gets you in trouble for X reason then what does Facebook have to do with it? Using your real name anywhere would get you in trouble.

So then Facebook is obviously not the right place for it if you need strong anonymity. Again, what is the blame on Facebook as if they came in and registered your name and profile by force? Choose wisely for your scenario, that's all I'm saying.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can have different arguments - especially for different scenarios. If it really is your life at risk, dont share on Facebook or online. Otherwise, use privacy controls. What am I missing?

First sentence of the fucking article: "Facebook claims its practice of forcing users to go by their 'real names' (or 'authentic identities' as Facebook spins it) makes the social network a safer place." Second sentence of the fucking article: "In fact, the company has often claimed that the policy protects women who use the social media platform, even when faced with community advocates pointing out that the policy…

I'm really not sure what point you're making here. Everyone will be affected differently by these rules as subject to their scenario. There's no way to make a general statement by Facebook for their entire 1B+ user base.

I do believe for the vast majority it does make things safer but if YOUR particular situation is different, then yes, use privacy settings, or dont be on Facebook or dont be online at all.

All the blame here seems to be toward Facebook somehow exposing information when every single step of that information getting out there is completely voluntary and has a massive amount of privacy control available.

Failure to use the right service in the right way rests on the user, not the service.

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