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Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

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Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#201
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Facebook hasn't abused their users much in a while, so I trust them to never do so again ever" is pretty fucking slim for someone whose career or life could be endangered.

It's possible to use Facebook in a way that couldn't endanger your life or career, depending on who you are. Obviously if someone is stalking you or something, that's a different story. But most people can just omit the information that they find to be sensitive and limit their friends list to people they trust.

> Obviously if someone is stalking you or something, that's a different story.

Yup.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then that's the name he can and should use on Facebook. Facebook's policy is not that you have to use your legal name. It's that you should use the name you go by in everyday life, not a pseudonym you invented for online publishing. Your statement contradicts Facebook's actual policies in practice, which in many cases attempt to mandate the use of a name backed by government-issued ID.

If you read some of the linked documents, they admit that their process isn't currently perfect and are working on finding better ways of verifying identity without depending on government IDs.

...and in the mean time their current process continues to shut down the accounts of people who are using their "authentic" names but don't have proper documentation. It's disingenuous for them to be calling this an "authentic name" policy when they have no intention of enforcing it as such.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#203
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities", say your workday exquisitely professional identity and weekend identity which enjoys goofy antics with friends. I think Facebook primarily targets the second one. Though personally, I find the whole concept of this type of multiple identities weird. Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? A…

> Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? In the tech industry, perhaps not so much of an issue. But, for example, I'm sure many K-8 teachers have a "work" self and a "weekend" self that don't (and/or shouldn't) mix well.

Right... I should have known this. Thanks.

I actually have a secondary-school teacher as a Facebook friend and she does in fact selectively publish things to different groups, because she has some of her students as friends on Facebook.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#204

I hate Facebook, but I think they are right about this policy. If you're a person at risk due to many of the issues described here, you don't belong on Facebook. If you're a domestic violence victim avoiding a dangerous person "liking" the wrong thing or somebody's innocent repost can put you in danger, pseudonym or not. The transgender situation is similarly tragic, but it's an issue that trans people run into when…

> We should get states to provide some sort of transitional ID or something.

The fact that identification is difficult to change for transgender individuals is an enormous fractured problem. Also consider that Facebook is used around the world in various political climates. Even in the state of California it is necessary to go through treatment and get a doctors note and pay several hundreds of dollars and wait several months (You can forgo the doctors note if you're willing to publish it in the local newspaper a few times).

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#205
post #109
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have the FB app installed it has access to your contacts.

Let me rephrase, I don't want it to have access to my contacts and did not realize that it does. Now that I know it likely does, I am discomforted.

At least on iOS it doesn’t, unless you gave it the permission yourself.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#206

You guys should really understand the policy before ripping on it. There are tons of other ways to have your name verified. https://www.facebook.com/help/159096464162185

I think you misunderstand. The only way for me to verify my authentic name as a transgender individual if I understand the page correctly is for me to go and take out a magazine subscription (to match with my mail and another non-matching photo ID). The other identification options are all required to match my legal name.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#207
TheLastPsychiatrist explains expertly why the whole form of this argument is wrong in a post questioning Randi Zuckerberg. It's well worth reading, especially if you are considering the benefits of opting out of Facebook (and I strongly recommend you jump in, the water's find :) http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/01/randi_zuckerberg.html

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#208

One of the best commentaries I've seen on the matter of "authentic" or "real" names policies comes from Yonatan Zunger, chief architect of Google's Google+ social network. I've had plenty of disagreement with Google and Yonatan over many aspects of G+, and have given both the company and him much grief on multiple counts, including Real Names (Google's varient of Facebook's policy), though I'll also note that Yonatan…

FWIW, despite the "chief architect" title, IIRC Yonatan Zunger didn't actually join the G+ project until well after the initial launch. That is to say, the real name policy predated his involvement. I suspect he was always opposed to it.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#209
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities", say your workday exquisitely professional identity and weekend identity which enjoys goofy antics with friends. I think Facebook primarily targets the second one. Though personally, I find the whole concept of this type of multiple identities weird. Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? A…

From your other posts you seem to have a very good sense of social responsibility, so I'm surprised at this comment. Multiple identities are incredibly important to anybody in a minority that is threatened by their local mainstream culture. Black people in may areas (even today), gay or lesbian people in many parts of the world, and trans people just about anywhere[1] are some obvious examples. There are numerous oth…

Let's call it temporary lapse of judgement... I guess I've confused the issue with my hate for bigotry. I just woke up and find the thing completely obvious - thanks to, in big part, your comment, and thanks to regaining the ability to generate examples in my head that I must have lost yesterday :(.

I guess part of my confusion stemmed from the fact that multiple identities on Facebook are hard and risky, so they become a pretty bad idea. Facebook seriously sucks for multiple identities, real-name-policy or not. You really need different accounts. Otherwise you need to get obsessive-compulsive about every privacy setting out there - who do you share with, who can view it, who can tag/mention you, etc. And then you lose anyway because one of your friends copy-pasted your post to a wider circle, or uploaded a photo with you and someone from the "wrong" side of your social graph recognizes it, etc. It's pretty much OPSEC 101 - the different lives you're having shouldn't mix at all because someone, somewhen, will screw up.

Also, you'd be surprised how broken the post range limits still are, if you know what to do (Facebook has significantly improved that over the last year or two, but there are still bugs).

> It is nice to believe that we are past these problems. I'm often thankful that I have the privilege to live in California, which has been very accepting of diversity. Unfortunately, we haven't solved all of these problems, and they are not going to be solved in the near future.

Yeah, this is what bit me.

> Sometimes an optimist or apparatchick insists that forcing everybody into the public so nothing is hidden and privacy no longer exists will somehow eradicate bigotry and discrimination. Well, bigots are often proud of their beliefs, and most people don't consider the consequences anyway; these problems are not solved by magical thinking.

I sometimes consider if what apparatchicks propose isn't in fact our best option. I usually refer to it as "privacy or progress, pick one", when pointing out the social and scientific benefits of the data we forgo when insisting on fighting every form of mass monitoring. Note, I'm only entertaining this thought - I'm not convinced yet either way, but the way the privacy discussion is today, the issue is terribly one-sided.

You mentioned bigots being proud of being bigots. This seriously worries me. I think the society could handle going (back?) to zero-privacy mode, but the more I think of it and see people being proud of their ignorance, the more I fear it would end in civil wars over really stupid things.

Re: Global coalition to Facebook: “Authentic names” are dangerous for your users

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real-name internet identities have some drawbacks compared to their real-world counterparts: 1. In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities", say your workday exquisitely professional identity and weekend identity which enjoys goofy antics with friends. In infinitely googlable internet - not so much. I guess mitigating this is the idea behind google+ circles but I have never us…

> In real life its fairly easy (and I would say healthy) to have multiple "identities", say your workday exquisitely professional identity and weekend identity which enjoys goofy antics with friends. I think Facebook primarily targets the second one. Though personally, I find the whole concept of this type of multiple identities weird. Why should I present a different identity at work than I do in personal affairs? A…

> And if your boss objects to your weekend parties, then you should consider changing jobs. Caring about such issues is as sign of serious problems in the company.

It doesn't work like that. On PT I listened to an HR employee laughing to a friend about how great Facebook is for them. A story she told was of a recent job applicant, they looked up his facebook profile and found he'd posted some weekend party photos. She laughed about how you could "tell from the eyes" he was on drugs... "needless to say, he didn't get the job".

People in the real world are penalized when they don't keep work/play identities separate — especially beady-eyed people!

(Conversely, if my facebook profile ever fills up with cats and doctored photos of me climbing K2, or helping out at the local orphanage, you'll know I'm applying for a job somewhere with an HR department)

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