Live data from Hacker News

In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

privateinternetaccess.com

71–80 of 89 posts

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#71
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eww ewww ewww! I never realized it was this bad. You have a funny idea of "worked". This seems like pure evil oppression. Long live freedom of speech. That being said we have a similar thing in the west, like clearance that you need for some government jobs(checks your connections to enemy states, drug use, general untrustworthy behavior). Fortunately, such government jobs isn't too big part of the economy. Ideally w…

But go talk to some people who've only ever experienced these types of business cultures, and they'll start listing for you a ton of reasons why it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the business world to operate as well or better, if it were any other way. These slavery books are still pretty common in parts of Europe too.

I think you are talking about трудовые книжки (work books) in relatively modern Russia.

Basically, it is a resume in regulated form. Nothing more or less. Certainly not slavery book.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your understanding of China is, but I want to correct your assumption of (1). Most Chinese youth arent rebellious in any substantial way. They've grown up in an environment that is strongly Confucian, and there isn't really this "be what you want to be, break free, live life, freedom of youth" narrative that we have in most of the developed world. Kids are very very unrebellious and I doubt there would…

On the second point, presumably companies providing finance actually benefit from a scoring system which negatively weights people's propensity to involve themselves in the sort of "activism" the Chinese government tends to sanction them for. People imprisoned, prevented from finding employment or with assets frozen tend to miss payments on their loans.

Statistically speaking, in the current climate I bet there are more government officials getting arrested and losing their assets on corruption charges than there are activists suffering the same.

One social factor that might be important is that people who complain/moan/get hung up on politics and principles aren't very likely to succeed in a country where you have to be very bloodyminded and flexible to deal with the amoral business environment in China. I would guess that if a person is constantly sending anti-government or whiney political messages, it's kind of like a 'loser' stamp here, and that might affect your credit score.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#73
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, people should be accountable for their opinions as well - you can't simply say that black people are stupid (in the John Derbyshire example) and expect that people won't get mad at you.

People might get mad at you. The board of directors might decide you're an embarrassment to the company, and golden-parachute you. But to impose some kind of angelic, super-human behavior requirements for top business leaders seems a bit naive. Quite a few of these hard charging types who made it to the top tend to have, shall we say, unpleasant personalities.

Angelic and super-human? There are quite literally millions of candidates who do not have $problem in most cases.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#74
This can't be more ridiculous, whoever wrote this article has no idea what Sesame score is, but I do agree with the author that the totalitarian government in China does have the intentions to associate not political opinions with credit system, they may wants to add morality in to account also.

Sesame score is less than harmless, and to most extent, less than useless. China already has a political rating system it's called 档案(Personal Record File). Actually it has acted a crucial part in Chinese society, individual themselves aren't allowed to access their own file, and records inputs we given by their supervisors. You will have your record with you since elementary school, or even earlier. It was serious in 80s and early 90s where state owns everything, you can imagine how hard for an individual to live back in the old days. Since private firms became the mainstream and acts an important role in the Chinese economic structure, these files are no longer required for private owners. As of today, it's only important if you work for state owned units, but it still works, and alive.

If the totalitarian government wants to make a political evaluation system, they can just make use of 档案, plus minus Internet surveillance data they gathered all the time. There's no need of data from any parts that Alibaba(NASDAQ:BABA) owns, Weibo(NASDAQ:WB) is the most influential social network in China, but a local government/state-owned companies easily take down any information they think inappropriate. They do have have read/write privileges to these information, not to mention other minor ones. As for data mining, not a problem, given the resource they have.

Also they don't need something like a smokescreen, or justification for that, since there's already a similar system working, it's easier to maintain that start a new one.

Sesame is merely a joke in the game of privacy-invasion, or credit scoring. Consumers don't care about their sesame score, since they can't make use of it. The imaginary party they 'are trying to serve' in the article, doesn't need them. Though the Aligroup tried to do some evil, but was too dubious and obvious. Last time they tried really hard to do some evil deeds and do crossed some lines by calling your friends telling them your purchases when you have overdue bills for sometime[1]. Things like such makes people question their capabilities of being evil, also ability to score people's credit correctly.

[1] http://www.zhihu.com/question/35586955 (Chinese)

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#75

"Such people will also be barred from serving in certain high-status and influential positions, like government official, reporter, CEO, statistician, and similar." For all practical purposes, I don't think this would be so different from what we already have in the West for people like CEOs, government officials, reporters etc. These people seem to be kicked out as soon as they do something politically incorrect. Th…

The entire thing sounds like a more "efficient" version of what some people try to implement "manually" in the West. It's not just "high-status and influential positions". Speakers get disinvited from conferences. Comedians get no-confidence vote when considered for gigs in colleges. Professors get fired. Random people are targeted by stink campaigns on Twitter and fired as well. And this is just the stuff that happens in the open.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#76
post #8

> our credit score is simple... It’s measured from our assets, our income, and if we have bought on credit in the past and managed it well. Having worked in mortgage lending for many years, I'd like to point out that this isn't true. Your score (generated by the big 3 bureaus) does not take income or assets into account, it's based on credit utilization, payment history, and similar factors reported by your existing…

> That's why more factors go into extending you credit (credit card, mortgage, auto loan), than your score alone.

Expanding on this: every credit card I've ever applied for has asked for my income on the signup form. They can easily get my credit score from any of the reporters, but they can only get my income by asking me for it.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#77

It seems to me that this credit score system--if real--would ultimately be self-defeating, for two reasons. First, among a cynical and rebellious youth population, a low score would become a prestigious thing, proof of your courage and gutsy attitude, a kind of street cred. Second, it would limit economic activity. If you cut off millions of people from car loans on the basis of their questionable postings or online…

Not sure what your understanding of China is, but I want to correct your assumption of (1). Most Chinese youth arent rebellious in any substantial way. They've grown up in an environment that is strongly Confucian, and there isn't really this "be what you want to be, break free, live life, freedom of youth" narrative that we have in most of the developed world. Kids are very very unrebellious and I doubt there would…

Nope, it's the same rebellion in China as the rest of the world.

No one likes the Confucian stuff in School, and it's just some gibberish text in the textbook, and you were required to recite it word by word after you 'read it aloud with strong emotion'. Yes, that's how most texts were studied by Chinese pupil and (junior-)high school students.

As showing off bad credit score? Once we were proud not to be a part in the Youth League[1]. Eventually they made everyone of us in, in the ninth grade.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Youth_League_of_Chin...

Source: grew up in China.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#78
post #71
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But go talk to some people who've only ever experienced these types of business cultures, and they'll start listing for you a ton of reasons why it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the business world to operate as well or better, if it were any other way. These slavery books are still pretty common in parts of Europe too.

I think you are talking about трудовые книжки (work books) in relatively modern Russia. Basically, it is a resume in regulated form. Nothing more or less. Certainly not slavery book.

Talking about another country.

Regardless, US culture says that this sort of thing gives the employer far too much power over the employee, and that there are plenty of unscrupulous employers who use that leverage against the employees to make them do what they want, far beyond what the US considers appropriate.

EEU culture typically says the world is far worse without these books and that there couldn't possibly be any downsides that outweigh the costs, or that there are bandaids which could theoretically fix any problems with it.

Neither side will likely ever convince the other side on this topic, so no point in arguing about it :)

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#79
post #58
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, instead of permanent records, we just have credit reports and Facebook to preserve everything we ever did for all time.

No, we're talking about something vastly more invasive. Beyond a certain extreme, they become very different things.

Yeah I wonder if there's a name for this "eh, it's not so different here" fallacy. Just because we have related problems here doesn't mean that the magnitude is on the same level.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#80
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they should be unaccountable?

People should be accountable for their actions, not for expressing an opinion .

You should read the parable of The Racist Tree.

http://lardcave.net/text/the_racist_tree.html

Post reply on HN