In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions • Hacker News Board

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#61

Post by westiseast » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:00 PM UTC

akramar wrote: post #8

> our credit score is simple... It’s measured from our assets, our income, and if we have bought on credit in the past and managed it well. Having worked in mortgage lending for many years, I'd like to point out that this isn't true. Your score (generated by the big 3 bureaus) does not take income or assets into account, it's based on credit utilization, payment history, and similar factors reported by your existing…

Exactly - hence why my wife who owns a house, a car and a thriving business couldn't get a loan, but our previously almost-bankrupt credit-addicted friend could. Because my wife had a single credit card she lost and forgot to pay the installments on @400 GBP credit, whereas our friend regularly paid hers off.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#62

Post by blisterpeanuts » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:11 PM UTC

lbebber wrote: post #53

lmm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should be accountable for their actions, not for expressing an opinion .

No, people should be accountable for their opinions as well - you can't simply say that black people are stupid (in the John Derbyshire example) and expect that people won't get mad at you.

People might get mad at you. The board of directors might decide you're an embarrassment to the company, and golden-parachute you. But to impose some kind of angelic, super-human behavior requirements for top business leaders seems a bit naive. Quite a few of these hard charging types who made it to the top tend to have, shall we say, unpleasant personalities.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#63

Post by erikb » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:16 PM UTC

Why is this surprising? Everywhere every score is affected by what the people think about you who can influence the rating. That's why people work so hard to look good. That's why employees work unpaid nightshifts and extra hours without telling their bosses. That's why salespeople will laugh about your joke, no matter how bad it is.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#64

Post by westiseast » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:33 PM UTC

erikb wrote: post #63

Why is this surprising? Everywhere every score is affected by what the people think about you who can influence the rating. That's why people work so hard to look good. That's why employees work unpaid nightshifts and extra hours without telling their bosses. That's why salespeople will laugh about your joke, no matter how bad it is.

That's very disingenuous - despite that this is sadly 'par for the course' in China, there is a world of difference between what you're talking about and what this article is suggesting.

Imagine in 2009 you forwarded a story to a friend in a private conversation thread on a private computer using commercial software about a corrupt village official that everyone was talking about. Jump to 2016 and now that guy is the provincial governor and nobody in your extended family can get even a $100 loan for anything.

Thats very, very different from sucking up to your boss by working extra hours for free.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#65

Post by nxb » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #59

nxb wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But go talk to some people who've only ever experienced these types of business cultures, and they'll start listing for you a ton of reasons why it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the business world to operate as well or better, if it were any other way. These slavery books are still pretty common in parts of Europe too.

Where in Europe?

South Eastern Europe. I'm curious about how common it is elsewhere in Europe too.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#66

Post by westiseast » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

jensen123 wrote: post #18

"Such people will also be barred from serving in certain high-status and influential positions, like government official, reporter, CEO, statistician, and similar." For all practical purposes, I don't think this would be so different from what we already have in the West for people like CEOs, government officials, reporters etc. These people seem to be kicked out as soon as they do something politically incorrect. Th…

In theory it shouldn't matter, assuming that 'the mob' truly reflects public opinion, and the government is 100% honest officials who work tirelessly and selflessly for the people.

In reality, you have to remember the principle of 'checks and balances' in a democracy. The government, the media, the mob, the judiciary.... all have voices and occasionally one prevails over the other, or two-or-more support each other. They can also resist each other - the judiciary can send a popular entertainer to prison, the mob can resist overbearing government action. It's scary in a democracy when the government gains too much leverage over the media, or the judiciary because..... then it starts to look like China :)

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#67

Post by Vraxx » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:42 PM UTC

marincounty wrote: post #44

akramar wrote: post #8

> our credit score is simple... It’s measured from our assets, our income, and if we have bought on credit in the past and managed it well. Having worked in mortgage lending for many years, I'd like to point out that this isn't true. Your score (generated by the big 3 bureaus) does not take income or assets into account, it's based on credit utilization, payment history, and similar factors reported by your existing…

I still believe credit card companies redline communities in America. I have gotten better cc offers in the better--strike better; richer postal codes. I can't prove it though. One of my biggest mistake was using a credit card. I wish I threw out that first one I received upon graduation.

As an aside to your main point, I am curious about why you have a complete disdain for using credit cards. I'm certainly not advocating using a credit card to spend beyond your limits, but intelligent application of a credit card can just net you assets. I'd also like to point out that I find the motives of credit card companies to encourage people to spend beyond their limits through temporary/immediate convenience deplorable, but that is not the only use case for these cards.

For example I have a cash back credit card that I run every purchase that doesn't entail a fee for credit card usage through and pay it off immediately. I accrue/pay no interest, and still don't spend beyond my means, but I get a discount everywhere.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#68

Post by notahacker » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:56 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #39

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge difference between social pressure to quit for believing some humans are worth less than others, and the Government forcing you to quit because you made a minor comment on the stock exchange crash. Do you think that it would somehow be better if the beliefs of people with power were not questioned?

That's quite a leap from the three examples you gave to "believing some humans are worth less than others".

But, in fairness, not as big as a leap as the OP from three unconnected people got fired for behaviours some people might consider to be a matter of conscience to people holding certain views are effectively barred from senior positions in the US.

In practice, the examples aren't very good: John Derbyshire was writing controversial material on race for years before National Review decided some of his articles in other publications were damaging their own reputation, at which point he promptly got a job at another publication that saw his extreme racism as an asset; Eich's resignation was extremely unusual and has the obvious counterexample of Kim Davis' job being well protected even when her political stance meant refusing to fulfil some of its requirements, and I'm not convinced that senior executives sometimes quitting over embarrassing revelations about their private life is really a sign that their employability is conditional on them holding certain sets of political views.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#69

Post by VLM » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 1:57 PM UTC

westiseast wrote: post #66

jensen123 wrote: post #18

"Such people will also be barred from serving in certain high-status and influential positions, like government official, reporter, CEO, statistician, and similar." For all practical purposes, I don't think this would be so different from what we already have in the West for people like CEOs, government officials, reporters etc. These people seem to be kicked out as soon as they do something politically incorrect. Th…

In theory it shouldn't matter, assuming that 'the mob' truly reflects public opinion, and the government is 100% honest officials who work tirelessly and selflessly for the people. In reality, you have to remember the principle of 'checks and balances' in a democracy. The government, the media, the mob, the judiciary.... all have voices and occasionally one prevails over the other, or two-or-more support each other.…

> assuming that 'the mob' truly reflects public opinion

Given your average vigilante group being a microscopic fraction of the public, alignment will be rare and random.

Re: In China, Your Credit Score Is Affected by Your Political Opinions

#70

Post by notahacker » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:00 PM UTC

westiseast wrote: post #51

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #42

It seems to me that this credit score system--if real--would ultimately be self-defeating, for two reasons. First, among a cynical and rebellious youth population, a low score would become a prestigious thing, proof of your courage and gutsy attitude, a kind of street cred. Second, it would limit economic activity. If you cut off millions of people from car loans on the basis of their questionable postings or online…

Not sure what your understanding of China is, but I want to correct your assumption of (1). Most Chinese youth arent rebellious in any substantial way. They've grown up in an environment that is strongly Confucian, and there isn't really this "be what you want to be, break free, live life, freedom of youth" narrative that we have in most of the developed world. Kids are very very unrebellious and I doubt there would…

On the second point, presumably companies providing finance actually benefit from a scoring system which negatively weights people's propensity to involve themselves in the sort of "activism" the Chinese government tends to sanction them for. People imprisoned, prevented from finding employment or with assets frozen tend to miss payments on their loans.