Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth • Hacker News Board

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#41

Post by dalke » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:26 PM UTC

rikacomet wrote: post #31

notNow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to see there. Not long even Muslims get bored there. Wahabis are not really big on history and artifacts. If you think that this is some kind of an open air museum, think again.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness. Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

It's perfectly fine to say that an area is reserved only for adherents to a given religion. But your response incorrectly generalizes your personal beliefs as if they are true of all religions.

Non-Catholics can enter the Vatican. Certainly you don't think the Vatican exists only to entertain, do you?

As a core part of the Sikh faith, "the Harmandir Sahib is open to all persons regardless of their religion, colour, creed, or sex." (Quoting Wikipedia.) Do you really think that makes it solely a place for sight-seeing?

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#42

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

xsace wrote: post #16

DanBC wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of interest: what do you think is on-topic for HN? Also, from the guidelines. > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

Well you just said it: "Anything that good hackers would find interesting" and not "Anything that anyone would find interesting".

[deleted]

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#43

Post by JoeAltmaier » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #38

One thing I like to reflect on when seeing this pictures is the vast difference in the number of people present at the hajj. It's truly orders of magnitude more. This huge increase in pilgrims over the last century is because of new technology like air travel, and the peace the world has experienced over the past few decades that allows people to move freely across the world. But it is due to the efforts of the Saudi…

Wait ... "Not connected to money"?! How is this different from building a movie theatre complex, or Disneyland? Why would we imagine its not all about profit at root? I'm not that generous.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#44

Post by bluedevil2k » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

tdees40 wrote: post #11

Mecca seems like a pretty fascinating place. It's a terrible shame non-Muslims are banned.

These are legitimate questions - how do they know who is Muslim and who is not Muslim? Do they check before you get to the camps?

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#45

Post by gnyman » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:32 PM UTC

In case you don't see any pictures, unblock "Optimizely". At least with the standard ghostery install it did not load any pictures before I allowed Optimizely.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#46

Post by chippy » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:33 PM UTC

"The most comprehensive database of Hajj and Umrah ratings and reviews worldwide! Find out what pilgrims say before you choose your Hajj or Umrah travel agent, company, or group."

http://www.hajjratings.com/

Like trip advisor but for pilgrims. Wonderful comments.

"They are terrible guys. They gave me wrong transportation and they overcharged me for the airline ticket as opposed to other people.

Avoid at any cost!!!! "

People just like us and many from HN travel to these places and they experience it in a great many ways. Hajj is not a holiday, but it's certainly travel!

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#47

Post by rikacomet » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

aws_ls wrote: post #39

rikacomet wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness. Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

I know you are saying it in earnest, and good for you. But I dislike the preachy tone 'Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him'. When you do this, you ignore lots of non-practicing Muslims, who are cultural Muslims, and like to preserve the identity. So they may be interested to visit Mecca, not with your kind of zeal, but just out of exploratory interes…

Being a Muslim is to bow one's will to the Almighty. There is no such thing Wahabi/Hijji/Cultural Muslims. This is cleared in the Quran, that the religion chosen for us is Islam, not Islam Version A or Version B.

A Muslim will enter it knowing its importance, and though he may not be perfect in conduct, he would ought to ask for forgiveness.

Non-Muslims would naturally move about naturally, and end up doing things they do not know the gravity of, and over that not ask for forgiveness (from Allah). This is the reason in plain words.

For the Non-Muslims, my op stays as it is. Just because you are interested in sightseeing Mecca, doesn't mean we undo our own vows. Yes it is a beautiful place, you wanna watch it? Buy the tickets: "There is only one God, and there is no other God, that is the way straight". And you should be gladly allowed to sight see or pray.. whichever you want. Mecca's Hospitality would be yours.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#48

Post by ericras » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:45 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #25

spacecowboy_lon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I used to work for Dar Al Handasha (who designed that clock tower) and even as a non mulslim I think its a shocking way to treat they holy places.

In the west we do the same thing, e.g. just look at Niagra falls.

Better example might be the private Gettysburg National Tower that stood from 1974 to 2000: https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5481/11078991455_f4ebf6ffc0_b....

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#49

Post by notNow » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:46 PM UTC

chippy wrote: post #40

rikacomet wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness. Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

There is a Dunkin Donuts right next to the Great Mosque. Contemplate that. (edits - seriously, I do. It's fascinating, the hotels, the logistics, the consumerism, the souvenier stalls, the clash of cultures, the clash of what islam means to different people around the world and the Saudi's interpretation of it. And then there's the western food chains, KFC is there, Dunkin Donuts are there, all halal of course).

Hajj & Umra esp. in Ramadan for Saudi is all about the $$ even if it hates to admit it so the consumerist side to these events or religious duties don't surprise me a bit as Saudis view them as an enterprise and are doing the best they could to collect as much dough as possible from these people to add to their coffers and make a killing in the process.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#50

Post by notNow » Mon, Oct 05, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

rikacomet wrote: post #47

aws_ls wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are saying it in earnest, and good for you. But I dislike the preachy tone 'Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him'. When you do this, you ignore lots of non-practicing Muslims, who are cultural Muslims, and like to preserve the identity. So they may be interested to visit Mecca, not with your kind of zeal, but just out of exploratory interes…

Being a Muslim is to bow one's will to the Almighty. There is no such thing Wahabi/Hijji/Cultural Muslims. This is cleared in the Quran, that the religion chosen for us is Islam, not Islam Version A or Version B. A Muslim will enter it knowing its importance, and though he may not be perfect in conduct, he would ought to ask for forgiveness. Non-Muslims would naturally move about naturally, and end up doing things th…

You are a piece of work, aren't you?

From the downvote gestapo, the upvote rings, the shills, the middle-aged uptight execs, the eugenicists/transhumanists, the Breitbarters, the PC lefties and now the Muslim fundies, HN is a gift that just keeps on giving.