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Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

theatlantic.com

31–40 of 89 posts

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#31
post #24
post #11

Mecca seems like a pretty fascinating place. It's a terrible shame non-Muslims are banned.

Nothing to see there. Not long even Muslims get bored there. Wahabis are not really big on history and artifacts. If you think that this is some kind of an open air museum, think again.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness.

Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#33
post #27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference?

The difference is the audience. While I found this article interesting in itself, it's something that can be interesting to anyone, regardless of its background. While harmless at first look, this can be an issue if too many content fall into this category. Then you end up with a reddit clone instead of HackerNews. I'm here to see hacker news, not interesting stuff for anyone.

"good hacker" is a subjective term and an obvious True Scotsman. It might as well mean nothing more than "your interests correspond to the interests of the moderators."

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#34
post #5

Amazing city. It's unfortunate the Ajyad Fortress (1) had to be demolished to make way for the tower with the largest clock face in the world (2). I also note every time I visited a devout Muslim's small business or home, and they have a picture of the Grand Mosque, it's free of the new modern additions that will facilitate two million (and growing) pilgrims who visit every year. I suppose the Saudi government didn't…

A certain amount of almost Byzantine-style iconoclasm seems to be a feature of Wahabbism[1] in particular, rather than Islam as a whole. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Shi.27a_criticism

Note that the Byzantine iconoclasts were heavily influenced by the very early Mohammedan conquests, which rather tends to support the Wahabbists' claims to be the original Islam.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to see there. Not long even Muslims get bored there. Wahabis are not really big on history and artifacts. If you think that this is some kind of an open air museum, think again.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness. Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

What makes you think it's for entertainment? Why are you so touchy? Plenty of people who don't believe in Churches or other places of religious worship still visit them, purely out of curiosity if not anything else.

Your last question is in extremely bad taste - and I say this as a non-believer.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#36
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to see there. Not long even Muslims get bored there. Wahabis are not really big on history and artifacts. If you think that this is some kind of an open air museum, think again.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness. Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

What would make you think that a non Muslim person would be interested in 'redemption' and 'have the thought of his Lord on him' whatever that might be when visiting or exploring Mecca?

Sorry to burst your bubble but non Muslims in general are only interested in visiting Mecca for the historical value and contents that it holds nothing more.

That's why I warned the OP that there is not much to see as the Saudi Wahabis destroyed virtually everything of historical value in the city and the surroundings in the same fashion ISIS has been doing in Syria or Iraq and even this is becoming a very sensitive topic for Hijazi people, the natives of the region since those Bedouins from the midlands and desert are destroying their heritage while they sitting idle and getting away with it.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#37
Islamic Perspective in Rough (need citation):

Prophet Adam (Peace be upon Him) created the first House of Worship at Kaaba.

During the time of Prophet Nuh (Noah) (Peace be Upon Him), it was in one sense, 'lost'.

Then Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) 'the true' and Prophet Ismail (?) (Peace be Upon them) rebuilt the Kabba again.

Again and Again, Kabba and Mecca with it, were lost (to what?)

Until At last, Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) cleaned it for the last time. Removing the 360+ idols placed within.

A interesting story, just Before the time of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is that a certain king vowed to destroy the Kaaba, and plunder the city of Mecca. To which he was roughly told 'The Owner of this House is well capable of protecting it'. The Army of that King was killed by a hailstorm of stones carried by countless birds, a sign for those who believe.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#38
One thing I like to reflect on when seeing this pictures is the vast difference in the number of people present at the hajj. It's truly orders of magnitude more.

This huge increase in pilgrims over the last century is because of new technology like air travel, and the peace the world has experienced over the past few decades that allows people to move freely across the world. But it is due to the efforts of the Saudis to expand the masjid, build camps at Mina, allow hotels to be constructed, modernize the facilities, etc. that every person is able to actually perform the rites of hajj at the proper times. Hajj consists of a number of rites that have to be performed in certain places at certain times on certain days. Think about what it takes to organize millions of people trying to do this. It's very different than organizing thousands, or tens of thousands. You have to accommodate all their sleeping arrangements. You have to provide enough space for marketplaces so they can get something to eat. You have to widen the roads, air condition the facilities, make sure each group leaves at their own time, etc.

It's true that the Saudis aren't perfect, and they make mistakes, but my point is that it's easy to get the impression from the massive construction projects that they are just trying to make another Dubai or Olympics. But really, there is a spiritual purpose behind it, not connected to money, and there is also a lot going on behind the scenes that you can't see in the pictures. It would be easier for the Saudis to just restrict the visas to a tiny fraction and not go through with all of the construction and organizing, but they are making the effort as you can see. I know this is not going to be a popular comment here but I'm just trying to offset all the negative comments with some positive.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#39
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to see there. Not long even Muslims get bored there. Wahabis are not really big on history and artifacts. If you think that this is some kind of an open air museum, think again.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness. Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

I know you are saying it in earnest, and good for you. But I dislike the preachy tone 'Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him'. When you do this, you ignore lots of non-practicing Muslims, who are cultural Muslims, and like to preserve the identity. So they may be interested to visit Mecca, not with your kind of zeal, but just out of exploratory interest. The narrow vision of what 'ought to' happen, is very exclusive and purging. A bit like the Wahabi kingdom of KSA.

I totally agree with GP, it should be open for all, including Non-Muslims, lapsed Muslims and everybody.

Re: Mecca Then and Now – 128 Years of Growth

#40
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to see there. Not long even Muslims get bored there. Wahabis are not really big on history and artifacts. If you think that this is some kind of an open air museum, think again.

It is not a place of entertainment or sight-seeing. Hajj is a Farz for Muslims. Anyone who enter's Mecca ought to do so with the thought of his Lord on him, seeking redemption and forgiveness. Or Would you worship your Lord only if it is 'entertaining to you'?

There is a Dunkin Donuts right next to the Great Mosque.

Contemplate that.

(edits - seriously, I do. It's fascinating, the hotels, the logistics, the consumerism, the souvenier stalls, the clash of cultures, the clash of what islam means to different people around the world and the Saudi's interpretation of it. And then there's the western food chains, KFC is there, Dunkin Donuts are there, all halal of course).

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