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The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

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Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#41
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police acting as agent provocateurs is not new: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-...

I get that. Is there evidence that the police were doing so in this case?

Such evidence is rarely obvious. Police are refusing to provide what evidence they do have (videos etc), judges have offered "we'll drop charges if you don't counter-charge", sweeping million-dollar bonds imposed on 177 people present are being seriously reduced or dropped, and other highly suspect actions are raising red flags.

What we do have is narratives from bikers present, and some photographic evidence that raises doubts about who started it. There's a lot to discuss/research, so I'll just give you a couple links as major starting points. I'm not saying whether I agree/accept the theories or not, just that we don't have enough definitive evidence to support or deny the conspiracy theory.

Short version: police snipers were already positioned, an undercover agent either started something or was "made", a fight was provoked and police were strangely quick to start firing.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/19/biker-truthers-eme... http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/27/waco-twin-pea...

(Please don't launch into criticizing the messengers; this is about the message.)

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#42
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 177 people who were at that restaurant were charged with the same thing, even though there is no evidence that they were involved. Like literally the people hiding in the bathroom were charged the same as the people shooting out front. I'm wondering what those folks did to deserve removal from society without question.

charged != convicted

[deleted]

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#43
I have lived in Waco for 5+ years. Never experienced a 'biker gang' or heard of biker related violence here.

I had my run with the law that disenchanted me. I saw a city worker stealing mail. I was laughed at by the police officer and almost charged for wrongfully calling 911. City worker tried slamming their car door in my face while I was talking to the officer, and the officer laughed again. I just walked away at that point.

The head of the grand jury is obvious bias. The imprisonments for 'being present' are insane. A blanket bail that is an unreasonable amount is odd. The false propaganda that biker gangs from all over the USA were flooding towards Waco with terrorist weapons was just a blatant lie.

Tip or not, why was full swat basically waiting in the parking lot before the event? Any other day, they wouldn't care if a few picked each other off in the parking lot. If they had a feeling something was going down, why not be proactive instead of reactive?

House taxes rise, school budgets cut, service cuts, and dodgy press release guy gets a promotion. yay. At least Baylor made a new shiny stadium to distract the general population.

Edit: Oh yeah, the current 'Waco Warrant Roundup' posted names of everyone with known warrants in the county. They're pulling over everyone and running warrant searches. Seems unlawful. I got pulled over and warrant checked because of 'loose articles in truckbed'. It was a bloody tie down strap that was hooked to the truck.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#44
"In November 2013, two Cossacks were stabbed in a roadhouse parking lot in Abilene;"

Roadhouse? As in Logan's Roadhouse? As in the Chili's of the great plains? That stabbing happened in a Logan's Roadhouse parking lot, not the Road House where James Dalton bounced. This is a fascinating story, but it loses some credibility (to me) with a purposeful omission like that.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#45
post #23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

charged != convicted

But the judge set bail at 1 Million dollars for all 177 of them

Justice of the peace, not judge. The person who set the initial bond apparently had no sanctioned education in the law. I have trouble believing that even the most devious and corrupt J.D. in existence could possibly create a legal theory that would even begin to square what that magistrate did with the laws of Waco, Texas, and the U.S.

The guy probably did it as a pseudo-legal way of punishing folks for being in a MC, without going through the hassle of due process. As they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride. In his mind, the bikers were all guilty of "contempt of Waco".

A Texas JP is allowed to institute penalties for contempt of a maximum of $100 and 3 days in jail. They can set bail, but their authority to try cases is limited to misdemeanor offenses punishable only by fines, and civil disputes less than $10k. Given the situation, the JP should have called upon a real judge--or actually several real judges--to process the 177 in custody.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can ... stay in society? Apparent trick questions make me nervous.

All 177 people who were at that restaurant were charged with the same thing, even though there is no evidence that they were involved. Like literally the people hiding in the bathroom were charged the same as the people shooting out front. I'm wondering what those folks did to deserve removal from society without question.

There are laws that deal with gangs and organized crime. The Banditos and Cossacks are both very much gangs and very into organized crime. Being present at a gang shoot out while wearing gang colors is association. Is that fair? probably not, but that's what happened.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police acting as agent provocateurs is not new: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-...

I get that. Is there evidence that the police were doing so in this case?

hanging around a motorcycle club with weapons at the ready seems a bit suspect....generally speaking you wouldnt want to pick a fight with a biker club when everyone is present...

unless you were a tax payer funded gang with no accountability and were heavily armed

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#48
post #3

Drugs, prostitution, money laundering, violence and protection rackets. I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society.

Arrest and investigate, or investigate and arrest, try, convict and punish. That's civilization.

Take people out because someone says they're bad. That's not.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#49
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these gangs are doing human trafficking. If you think that laws against that are "legislating morality" rather than the only sane moral stand, then I don't even know how to begin having a conversation about ethics with you.

I doubt human trafficking would be competitive against legal brothels.

There will always be people with more exotic tastes than a legal brothel will cater to. There will always be human trafficking.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#50
post #3

Drugs, prostitution, money laundering, violence and protection rackets. I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society.

And we have a system for that. But part of the system is proving the people in question are engaging in that kind of criminal behavior.
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