The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out • Hacker News Board

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#21

Post by learc83 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:28 PM UTC

duaneb wrote: post #11

junto wrote: post #3

Drugs, prostitution, money laundering, violence and protection rackets. I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society.

> I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society. The devil is in the details. I think that most people would happen to agree, but I don't approve of e.g. capital punishment or arresting based on being associated with a gang involved in criminal activity. These kinds of reactions don't just affect the current generation, they affect that generation's kids. Only reh…

The funny part is that many of the people arrested weren't part of gangs that are even alleged to be involved in criminal activity (until that day). Many of them weren't in the Bandidos and Cossacks, but regular 99% biker clubs. Some of the guys arrested were in the Soldiers for Jesus Christian Motorcycle Club, not some outlaw biker gang.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#22

Post by function_seven » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:30 PM UTC

joeax wrote: post #12

“The city of Waco is looking at paying out hundreds of millions of dollars,” says Michael White, Wilson's attorney. This is the real problem. The police operate on a blank check principle and are held to zero accountability. The taxpayers are the real victims here.

> The police operate on a blank check principle and are held to zero accountability. The taxpayers are the real victims here.

It's the taxpayers that are giving them that blank check in the first place. They're not victims, they're complicit.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#23

Post by learc83 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:32 PM UTC

T-Roy wrote: post #14

kasey_junk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 177 people who were at that restaurant were charged with the same thing, even though there is no evidence that they were involved. Like literally the people hiding in the bathroom were charged the same as the people shooting out front. I'm wondering what those folks did to deserve removal from society without question.

charged != convicted

But the judge set bail at 1 Million dollars for all 177 of them

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#24

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:33 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #19

junto wrote: post #3

Drugs, prostitution, money laundering, violence and protection rackets. I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society.

Some of us have a VERY big problem with such removal without review by judge & jury. Seems the police were already there and prepared for a battle, and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse (not the first time such has happened in Waco, with comparably bad results). We have a judicial process for a reason, and bad things happen when "removal of such people" is taken lightly.

The police could well have been there because they had good reason to suspect that there was going to be trouble.

> and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse

But is there a viable theory that the police started the shooting?

If you're going to start a shootout in town, and the police are there in force to try to stop that from happening, and you start a shootout anyway, and the police shoot you to get you to stop shooting other people, well... I don't have much room for feeling like the police are out of control there.

If you have evidence that says that I misunderstood the way events happened, feel free to correct my understanding...

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#25

Post by kelvin0 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:36 PM UTC

Almost as bad as some Agile meetings I've attended :)

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#26

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:37 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #13

junto wrote: post #3

Drugs, prostitution, money laundering, violence and protection rackets. I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society.

Who's going to supply us with drugs and prostitutes if not outlaws? It's the government legislation of morality that empowers outlaws and it will never end so long as human beings like to fuck and get high. Edit: s/causes these things/empowers outlaws/

Some of these gangs are doing human trafficking. If you think that laws against that are "legislating morality" rather than the only sane moral stand, then I don't even know how to begin having a conversation about ethics with you.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#27

Post by freditup » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:38 PM UTC

jbob2000 wrote: post #2

Police say it's the bikers, bikers say it's the police. I don't trust either of them.

Who can tell? Although I bet both groups have some amount of culpability in this one. We'll probably never know for sure what really happened, except possibly if there's video available.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#28

Post by glibgil » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:39 PM UTC

nickbauman wrote: post #6

Gangs form around an economy. In the case of OMGs, the economy is drug and human trafficking, extortion, contract slaying and various other illicit businesses. Many OMGs are made up of a large percentage of ex military, with the USMC highly represented. Ditto for police forces, maybe not as much USMC. Considering how many soldiers we have, it's no surprise that OMGs are on the rise. You can thank the GWoT for that. T…

That's the bottom line for anyone who didn't read the article.

The article builds a timeline of events that is outside the official story. I appreciate that you recognize the police are a gang, but the article is trying to cover some specific things, not generalities.

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#29

Post by kelvin0 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:39 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #24

ctdonath wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us have a VERY big problem with such removal without review by judge & jury. Seems the police were already there and prepared for a battle, and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse (not the first time such has happened in Waco, with comparably bad results). We have a judicial process for a reason, and bad things happen when "removal of such people" is taken lightly.

The police could well have been there because they had good reason to suspect that there was going to be trouble. > and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse But is there a viable theory that the police started the shooting? If you're going to start a shootout in town, and the police are there in force to try to stop that from happening, and you start a shootout anyway , and the police shoot yo…

Police acting as agent provocateurs is not new: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-...

Re: The Texas Biker Gang Shoot-Out

#30

Post by freditup » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 7:39 PM UTC

How in the world is the head of the Grand Jury a Waco police officer who was at least a little involved with the incident? Shouldn't he have been recused from that process?