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Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#161

Post by jolux »

gozo wrote: post #135
jolux wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of which would be aided by opening the walled garden? Which isn't to say I don't think there are advantages to Android's model and that of more open package repositories in general, especially for power users. However most of Apple's base is people who don't care about openness or extra repositories, they want their iPhone to work with a minimum of fuss and not have to worry about malware like you do on Andro…

The point is that security is not an inherent or necessarily attainable feature of a walled garden. Some people seem to think that just because Apple approves apps there isn't going to be any security issues. The approval process does prevent some security problems, and has some other features, but mobile security overwhelmingly comes from things like sandboxing.

Perhaps that's the case, but if it is, then it seems clear that Apple's sandbox is far better than Android's as well. Also, approving apps does cull out a range of malware, because it is human- and computer-analyzed before entry. As I said previously, this has its downsides, but it does make it harder to get malware into the iOS App Store. Not impossible, but harder.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#162

Post by muddi900 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #65
martingordon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that the flashing/side-loading is the back door. A malicious actor with physical access to your phone (think screen repair shop, TSA agent, etc) could flash a compromised OS or install malware on your device. Also, there a lot of not-savvy people who will follow instructions in a well-crafted email or pop up and allow themselves to succumb to spyware and malware.

The device clears user storage before allowing you to flash a new OS, so that isn't an effective way to compromise a user's data. Application installation requires unlocking the device, so the ability to sideload doesn't give an attacker any meaningful ability over installing from an unscanned app store like Apple's.

The device is wiped of profile data and logins. You files are intact and accessible through a file explorer.

It is a very restricted and time consuming method to access a device.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#163

Post by muddi900 »

plaguuuuuu wrote: post #158
sigmar wrote: post #9

Apple's comments on privacy over the past year have seemed very opportunistic. >But what they don't want to do, they don't want your email to be read, and then to pick up on keywords in your email and then to use that information to then market you things on a different application that you're using. ... They don't have the technology/infrastructure to perform machine learning techniques that google employs. So they…

>They don't have the technology/infrastructure to perform machine learning techniques that google employs. Pretty sure Siri is machine learning...? Even if it wasn't, they could just hire a bunch of PhD students, maybe acqui-hire a couple of tech companies with their ludicrous amounts of available capital and bam, they have their machine learning algorithm

Siri's voice recognition is awful compared to Google Now and Cortana. It has refused to recognize my accent ever, to the point where it seems almost racist.

Not that voice recognition products count as machine learning. Google has a growing neural network, Apple is not competing in that market at all.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#164

Post by muddi900 »

plaguuuuuu wrote: post #158
sigmar wrote: post #9

Apple's comments on privacy over the past year have seemed very opportunistic. >But what they don't want to do, they don't want your email to be read, and then to pick up on keywords in your email and then to use that information to then market you things on a different application that you're using. ... They don't have the technology/infrastructure to perform machine learning techniques that google employs. So they…

>They don't have the technology/infrastructure to perform machine learning techniques that google employs. Pretty sure Siri is machine learning...? Even if it wasn't, they could just hire a bunch of PhD students, maybe acqui-hire a couple of tech companies with their ludicrous amounts of available capital and bam, they have their machine learning algorithm

Siri's voice recognition is awful compared to Google Now and Cortana. It has refused to recognize my accent ever, to the point where it seems almost racist.

Not that voice recognition products count as machine learning. Google has a growing neural network, Apple is not competing in that market at all.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#165

Post by b6 »

reagency wrote: post #130
b6 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> profits from exploiting factory workers in countries where workers have less rights and where labour is cheap At least in China, the "exploited" workers you speak of have chosen to work at factories rather than do the kind of farm labor their parents did. Do you think they would be better off if they were not able to make such a choice? If they were paid the same wages a factory worker in Norway might receive, do y…

Apple could pay a lot more to Chinese workers and still pay less than Norway wages. Tim Cook collects $hundreds of millions by exploiting a power imbalance in the labor market.

Are you criticizing a person/organization who provides opportunity to hundreds of thousands of workers because he/it did not tweak the knobs exactly as you would have, if it had been you?

Many people have decided that working at Foxconn, etc., is better than the alternatives they perceive as being available to them. Do you not feel somewhat strange judging their arrangement as exploitative? At what hourly rate would it stop being exploitative? How much is it permissible for Tim Cook to earn in a year? Do you really feel able to decide these things?

Are you being exploited? Why not? Aren't your employment opportunities limited by the circumstances of your life, your education, your abilities, etc., just like everyone else?

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#166

Post by Spivak »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #156
millstone wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't have the technology/infrastructure to perform machine learning techniques that google employs. So they will say 'we think it's a feature that none of our services interoperate.' You mean the machine learning techniques Google developed to better market people things? This is like saying, Sweden doesn't have nuclear capability so it's opportunistic for them to claim they are peaceful. Only states that pou…

"the machine learning techniques Google developed to better market people things?" That's a bit of a cheap swipe. Google's machine learning has been applied to things like spam filtering, image search, and speech recognition.

Why not both? I would consider an email provider that one, didn't run an ad network, and two didn't scan my emails at all a huge feature. Neither Google nor Apple fit both criteria however.

This doesn't have anything to do with the technical capabilities of each company, it has to do with the fact that my and Google's interests are not aligned. Google, like every other company, is going to do what benefits them the most and there's nothing wrong with that. But when what benefits them doesn't benefit me I have reconsider using their services.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#167

Post by kenrikm »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #138
larrywright wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that what Apple has done here is an acceptable tradeoff. The app store trades a small amount of privacy for a lot more security. Looking at Android's perpetual issues with this makes me think that Apple made the right choice.

I love Apple products, but please stop. Please. Do not be blind to the fact that Apple has to remove apps from the app store often due to security issues. And most of what you hear about on the Android side is either blown up in the media or because people side load apps from ... questionable sources.

You're kidding me right? Android applications are allowed to run daemons that will continue to run if you like it or not. [1] Due to Google's lax review process basically you can write a virus and post it to the store.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#168

Post by IBM »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #121

It's certainly an interesting angle with which to attack Google. A few pertinent details: > The government comes to us from time to time, and if they ask in a way that is correct, and has been through the courts as is required, then to the degree that we have information, we give that information. Pretty standard stuff. They'll basically give up your info if any court orders them to. > There have been different conve…

Actually he's repeatedly said in public that there's no backdoors.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/24/apples-tim-cook-there-is-...

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#169

Post by Thimothy »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #116
sigmar wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a shame this comment will be downvoted only because it does not support the confirmation bias of many HN users.

Does HN now show downvoted comments at the top of the page? Interesting design choice...

I have seen this phenomena before, it seems that they take into account more things that just how upvoted/downvoted it was, like the posting user karma, how much the answers were upvoted or the answering users karma.

It makes sense, sometimes a really stupid comment (not implying this was the case) can sprawl a really interesting discussion. I often look at the bottom of the comments for hidden goodies.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#170

Post by bestnameever »

martingordon wrote: post #97
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that the flashing/side-loading is the back door Next you'll be saying compilers are backdoors, too. That's not what the term "backdoor" means. A malicious actor with physical access to your phone Stop. Physical access means all bets are off.

I should have been more clear. I was using Tim Cook's statement as an analogy for flashing/side-loading. Allowing good guys to do it means bad guys can do it too. Tricking a user into side-loading malware does not require physical access to the device and is relatively common on the Android side (more so on third-party stores).

My last few Android phones have wiped themselves before allowing me in a state where I could flash a modified version of android.
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